Sig P320 A Ghost?

[MikeKing77]

State police told me that the Sig P320 is a ghost gun!
Huh? Make it make sense!

 

[JKM525]

...what? It's on the roster... These dudes are just saying anything these days.

 

[Bertfish]

There are 80% 320 fire control groups

 

[KIBarrister]

jsdsupply.com

Or Matrix precision if you want a proper sig in 80% format.

That said, don't trust state police to know the law.

 

[scottyfz6]

Yeah I bought one of matrix's 80% when I thought they might ban them. Along with a few other 80% stuff, some of which I have no desire to complete.

They do look nice, but I have fired a few 320's and they dont do it for me.

I guess having a few boxes on the shelf wont hurt.

 

[KIBarrister]

Yeah I bought one of matrix's 80% when I thought they might ban them. Along with a few other 80% stuff, some of which I have no desire to complete.

They do look nice, but I have fired a few 320's and they dont do it for me.

I guess having a few boxes on the shelf wont hurt.

P320's and Glocks are like Honda Civics - nothing sexy, but they work (and you can make them look "cool").

As for the paperweights...

 

[esqappellate]

State police told me that the Sig P320 is a ghost gun!
Huh? Make it make sense!

Easy. The serial number is engraved on the trigger assembly that is inserted into the polymer receiver. It is viewed through a small window in the receiver. It is not engraved on the receiver itself. That makes it a ghost gun.

 

[MD80]

Easy. The serial number is engraved on the trigger assembly that is inserted into the polymer receiver. It is viewed through a small window in the receiver. It is not engraved on the receiver itself. That makes it a ghost gun.

On a Sig 320, the grip module is not serialized like a Glock or similar handgun. The chassis is the serialized component and is considered the "firearm". It is a trigger pack that houses the fire control group. Also referred to as the FCU (Fire Control Unit)

As stated, the serial number is viewed through a window in the grip frame. With an 80% version, there would be no serial number. The polymer grip module is just a piece of plastic. If you wanted to try stippling, you could try it on a 320 grip. Worst case, you're out 40 bucks and didn't trash the "firearm" as would be the case with Glock.

The FCU can be swapped into and between calibers and sizes (sub compact, compact, carry, full). There are X-Change kits which have slide, grip module, and magazines to match in 9mm 357sig and 40sw. The only component missing is the FCU. In just a few minutes you could change the grip or slide length and caliber without tools.

Sig missed the boat on this. Even though it is possible, the Caliiber X-Change kits are hard to find, and nearly the cost of a complete handgun. Had they been priced around $300 to $350, I think they would have made a real impact.

If you had a 320 FCU in your pocket, without a carry permit, you could be charged with carrying a concealed firearm.

 

[esqappellate]

On a Sig 320, the grip module is not serialized like a Glock or similar handgun. The chassis is the serialized component and is considered the "firearm". It is a trigger pack that houses the fire control group. Also referred to as the FCU (Fire Control Unit)

As stated, the serial number is viewed through a window in the grip frame. With an 80% version, there would be no serial number. The polymer grip module is just a piece of plastic. If you wanted to try stippling, you could try it on a 320 grip. Worst case, you're out 40 bucks and didn't trash the "firearm" as would be the case with Glock.

The FCU can be swapped into and between calibers and sizes (sub compact, compact, carry, full). There are X-Change kits which have slide, grip module, and magazines to match in 9mm 357sig and 40sw. The only component missing is the FCU. In just a few minutes you could change the grip or slide length and caliber without tools.

Sig missed the boat on this. Even though it is possible, the Caliiber X-Change kits are hard to find, and nearly the cost of a complete handgun. Had they been priced around $300 to $350, I think they would have made a real impact.

If you had a 320 FCU in your pocket, without a carry permit, you could be charged with carrying a concealed firearm.

Nice explanation! I love my Sig M17. I too wish the exchange kits were cheaper and more available so I could play around with it some more. But, if this bill passes, a grip module arguably could be construed to be a receiver by a LEO (it looks like one), notwithstanding how the feds and the ATF view it as the bill does not purport to incorporate federal standards or practices.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

I'm actually a bit surprised the 80% Sig P320's don't get more attention.

Making the FCG appears to be pretty easy, and then you've got factory frames and slides at the ready and can essentially build a factory quality pistol from an 80%.

I know there are a few nice p80 frames for Glocks, but the basic Polymer80 Glock frame leaves a lot to be desired IMO. Especially because of how easy it is to F up the fit/functionality when making the frame functional.

What I don't fully understand, though, is how a complete Glock frame with no FCG is considered a firearm, but a factory P320 frame is not. I know it has to do with how they've serialized it, but then why couldn't we buy complete, non factory glock frames?

 

[Rabu Rabu]

What I don't fully understand, though, is how a complete Glock frame with no FCG is considered a firearm, but a factory P320 frame is not. I know it has to do with how they've serialized it, but then why couldn't we buy complete, non factory glock frames?

Because Glock didn't serialize the trigger pack with that contains the sear to drop the striker. They could have, just like sig did with a window that allowed swapping to other frames with a pin swap considering how simple glocks are, there wouldn't be that many more steps than a P320. I just consider it erring on the side of caution given that HK was the only other real competitor that had done a polymer pistol prior. Also patents. P80's only popped up after the Gen 3 patent expired.

 

[DC-W]

The SIG P320 and P365 FCUs also contain the rails.

 

[Rabu Rabu]

The SIG P320 and P365 FCUs also contain the rails.

Correct, if glock somehow made the locking block and forward rails part of the trigger mechanism they could be doing something similar.

 

[jcutonilli]

Nice explanation! I love my Sig M17. I too wish the exchange kits were cheaper and more available so I could play around with it some more. But, if this bill passes, a grip module arguably could be construed to be a receiver by a LEO (it looks like one), notwithstanding how the feds and the ATF view it as the bill does not purport to incorporate federal standards or practices.

I am not sure how HB 425/SB387 could be construed to have a P320 grip module be a receiver. The proposed bill talks about something that is about to become a receiver or is marketed as being a potential receiver. I am not aware that SIG refers to the grip module as a frame/receiver and the grip module does not even hold the slide/barrel on the firearm so it cannot be a frame/receiver.

 

[jcutonilli]

What I don't fully understand, though, is how a complete Glock frame with no FCG is considered a firearm, but a factory P320 frame is not. I know it has to do with how they've serialized it, but then why couldn't we buy complete, non factory glock frames?

The factory P320 frame is a firearm and has the serial number attached to it. The P320 has a removable GRIP MODULE that can detach from the frame/receiver like the pistol grip on an AR or the grip panels on a 1911. Like the pistol grip or grip panels, the grip module does not hold the barrel/slide on the firearm. That is the job of the frame/receiver.

 

[DC-W]

I am not sure how HB 425/SB387 could be construed to have a P320 grip module be a receiver. The proposed bill talks about something that is about to become a receiver or is marketed as being a potential receiver. I am not aware that SIG refers to the grip module as a frame/receiver and the grip module does not even hold the slide/barrel on the firearm so it cannot be a frame/receiver.

We know that. Now explain that nuance to an officer, prosecutor, or jury.

 

[erwos]

I'm actually a bit surprised the 80% Sig P320's don't get more attention.

They don't get much attention because once you add parts, they're about as expensive as just buying the FCUs.

A lot of guys are like me... they're not building guns from unfinished receivers because of some delusion of staying off the radar (the govt knows ALL about me, lol), they're building them because it's fun and cost-effective (no transfer fees, and sometimes cheaper in general).

 

[jcutonilli]

We know that. Now explain that nuance to an officer, prosecutor, or jury.

Your response indicates that you don't really understand it. All you really need to do is point out where the serial number would be located and show them the hole on the other side of the grip module that allows the serial number to show through. There is no need to explain the nuances of why it is that way.

 

[Art3]

Your response indicates that you don't really understand it. All you really need to do is point out where the serial number would be located and show them the hole on the other side of the grip module that allows the serial number to show through. There is no need to explain the nuances of why it is that way.

I suspect DC-W really understands it a lot more than the average MDSer.

I worry that all state and local law enforcement may not be fully briefed in the nuances when the law goes into effect. I wouldn't bet my freedom on it, nor would I bet that on being able to give them a roadside education on the differences. But...admittedly, I'm the type who would rather be called "chicken" than "test case"

 

[miles71]

Easy. The serial number is engraved on the trigger assembly that is inserted into the polymer receiver. It is viewed through a small window in the receiver. It is not engraved on the receiver itself. That makes it a ghost gun.

What?!?