Security Clearances may now just be G&S

[USAFRavenR6]

Are you doing this hoping you will get an unrestricted because your "business" permit is restricted?

Correct. When I applied, I knew I would get the permit but it would be a restricted one based on only the business G&S. I have a valid business but "official business" is an arbitrary term which needs defined in order to ensure I am using the permit within scope. I also filed an appeal based on this language as its completely up the the officer to determine what is official and what is not, which is not good enough for me as I am not going to face legal action or worse because the MSP wants to be cryptic. If they are going to issue me a permit, they need to define what is ok and what is not. My original intent was to write my own restrictions, which would basically be a unrestricted permit. I used my clearance and the OPM breach as well as ISIS threats to military/government and their families as supporting G&S. The day before my interview, the TN shooting occurred and I mentioned this during the interview as well as showing open threats from ISIS stating 15 states where soldiers were currently living, MD was one of those states. The officer completely agreed with me when I made the statement, "as a result of yesterday, I believe that these threats have become valid and are no longer a personal paranoia." He agreed and said, "you are by no means the only one to list ISIS as well as a security clearance recently as G&S."

Fast forward to three weeks ago. I received my permit in the mail and it was restricted, only to official business related activities. None of the other things I listed were even discussed. Now, given the one board hearing in September, I believe it was 9/16/15, the board overturned a NSA employees permit denial based on the exact same things I listed on my permit application as separate G&S reasons. This is per the information I got from the board here and Jack's video. So, as soon as my permit came in the mail, I filed for an appeal the very next day and send my appeal letter in listing that my other reasons were not addressed and as a result I was formally requesting a board hearing, since the MSP were not applying board decisions to subsequent applicants who filed under similar G&S.

 

[ELCAM]

I received the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I will be applying with that as G&S. Guess we will see what happens

I am now at 97 days and every time I call I'm told its still pending and to give it to the end of the month.

I applied using ISIS, the OPM data hack, and my guard job as a Fighter Pilot as my G&S for self defense.


I'm not sure what the hold up is unless they are worried that my approval might lead to the flood gates opening for military folks applying.

 

[navycraig]

Received my OPM letter over the weekend. Had already applied for my permit, so will have to wait and see if it comes into play after the (expected ) denial.

 

[BeoBill]

I got my letter on Tuesday. I'll wait and see how the rest of you do before I commit a wad of time and cash to the endeavor. I did sign up for the services offered though. Free sh1t can be good sometimes. Besides, I paid for it last April.

 

[Stoveman]

Wife got hers in the mail yesterday.

I'm also going to see how other progress before spending the money for training.

 

[Xshot]

I know someone who's wife is DOD with a TS clearance. From the sounds of it, if she her HQL she could get her CCW for sure right?
Would her husband be able to just because of being her spouse?

 

[BeoBill]

I know someone who's wife is DOD with a TS clearance. From the sounds of it, if she her HQL she could get her CCW for sure right?
Would her husband be able to just because of being her spouse?

 

[Xshot]

Lol. Got it.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

the husbands info is on the SF86, the same as the wife. Family members are targets the same as the individuals with the clearances. In Mexico, cartels kidnap family members, the ones with money will pay to have them released. Dont over think it, apply the heightened danger over other citizens and move on, the MSP has to prove it otherwise.

 

[Xshot]

the husbands info is on the SF86, the same as the wife. Family members are targets the same as the individuals with the clearances. In Mexico, cartels kidnap family members, the ones with money will pay to have them released. Dont over think it, apply the heightened danger over other citizens and move on, the MSP has to prove it otherwise.

Has anyone gone down that road that we know of and tried that route?

 

[BeoBill]

Has anyone gone down that road that we know of and tried that route?

I answered that one here.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=4035995&postcount=1722

In short, one, and the clearance was one of a number of factors, any of which could be G&S. Or not.

 

[ELCAM]

Based on two emails I received yesterday from the MSP they are not going to count OPM/ISIS as specific enough for G&S.

The first email said they were about to decide if it was G&S and the 2nd email about a half hour later said I would be denied by 20 Nov if I didn't submit specific threats with police reports etc....

I sent them more bulletins/threat assessments etc and a memo I wrote.

Im expecting a denial soon though so a review board is my future.

 

[navycraig]

Based on two emails I received yesterday from the MSP they are not going to count OPM/ISIS as specific enough for G&S.

The first email said they were about to decide if it was G&S and the 2nd email about a half hour later said I would be denied by 20 Nov if I didn't submit specific threats with police reports etc....

I sent them more bulletins/threat assessments etc and a memo I wrote.

Im expecting a denial soon though so a review board is my future.

Interesting. Did you initiate the emails?

 

[ELCAM]

Interesting. Did you initiate the emails?

I did I initiated to ask why I was at 103 days and what the reason was:

This was the initial reply:

I apologize for the delay in processing your application. We are currently in the process to determine whether these general ISIS bulletins and threats meet the good and substantial reason for a handgun permit. A decision will be made shortly.

The 2nd email:

review of your handgun permit application #438-xxxxx by the Maryland State Police Licensing Division Handgun Permit Unit revealed that additional information is required as follows:

1. Evidence is needed to support apprehended fear (i.e.- copies of police reports for assaults, threats, harassments, or stalking).

If the documentation is not received in this office by November 20, 2015, your application will be disapproved.

Please return a copy of this email and the requested documentation to the Handgun Permit Unit at 1111 Reisterstown Rd., Pikesville, MD 21208. If you have further questions contact me via email.

 

[ELCAM]

I did I initiated to ask why I was at 103 days and what the reason was:

This was the initial reply:

I apologize for the delay in processing your application. We are currently in the process to determine whether these general ISIS bulletins and threats meet the good and substantial reason for a handgun permit. A decision will be made shortly.

The 2nd email:

review of your handgun permit application #438-xxxxx by the Maryland State Police Licensing Division Handgun Permit Unit revealed that additional information is required as follows:

1. Evidence is needed to support apprehended fear (i.e.- copies of police reports for assaults, threats, harassments, or stalking).

If the documentation is not received in this office by November 20, 2015, your application will be disapproved.

Please return a copy of this email and the requested documentation to the Handgun Permit Unit at 1111 Reisterstown Rd., Pikesville, MD 21208. If you have further questions contact me via email.

I'm not sure if its to buy more time or if they decided it wasn't G&S

 

[mvee]

I'm not sure if its to buy more time or if they decided it wasn't G&S

Did you originally apply as having apprehended fear? It looks like they are attempting to classify you using apprehended danger as a justification and not using assumed risk. I would imagine that this would make it easier to deny you. Maybe with the new memo the assumed risk reason would work . Maybe they can change it.

ASSUMED RISK POSITION: a position of government/public safety/criminal justice employment where, by virtue of the positions duties and responsibilities, the employee voluntarily and knowingly assumes the risks that those duties will either place their lives in imminent danger and/or subject them to be targeted by individuals or entities seeking to do them harm as a result of performing those duties or responsibilities.

APPREHENDED DANGER/FEAR: an objectively established concern that the applicant’s life is in danger or
that he/she is being targeted by individuals wishing to do him or her harm.

 

[ELCAM]

Did you originally apply as having apprehended fear? It looks like they are attempting to classify you using apprehended danger as a justification and not using assumed risk. I would imagine that this would make it easier to deny you. Maybe with the new memo the assumed risk reason would work . Maybe they can change it.

I did address that in the memo.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

Did you originally apply as having apprehended fear? It looks like they are attempting to classify you using apprehended danger as a justification and not using assumed risk. I would imagine that this would make it easier to deny you. Maybe with the new memo the assumed risk reason would work . Maybe they can change it.

First, the MSP also denied the NSA worker who then took it to the board, ultimately having the MSP decision over turned. Do not be swayed or discouraged just because the MSP does not believe it fits the bill. We know from the HPRB in September that the threat does in fact fit the bill. Frankly, I dont expect the MSP to know what a SF86 is, despite me printing a full copy and attempting to explain why its bad if someone, let alone a militant intent on doing damage in this country, to have. While I hold the utmost respect for LOEs, everything is black and white to them, for good reason I may add. if it is not on their list of approved G&S, its denied.

Second, when you appeal, which I highly suggest you do, you need to do it under the circumstance that you are in fear. Print news articles, one of the ones I used was from a press release stating that ISIS has soldiers in 15 states, Maryland specifically named on the 5 states they released. Also print out articles about the TN shooting as well as how ISIS has "hacked government databases". This should be enough to get you over the hurdle in the eyes of the review board.

Remember, you need to show how this is beyond your own personal paranoia and nothing more. Use the MSP logic against them, as in black and white. Do you, as a clearance holder have a greater apprehended risk of danger to your life being that you were part of a database hack, which contains your life history for the past 15 years to present as well as all family information, than the average Maryland citizen on a daily basis? The answer is yes.

Dont fall into the trap some of the people are in on this board with the doom and gloom. We have seen recently that if you are able to make the case, you will be granted a permit. All you need to do is make the case. If you dont get the permit, oh well, you are in the same position you are in today and no harm no foul.

 

[ELCAM]

First, the MSP also denied the NSA worker who then took it to the board, ultimately having the MSP decision over turned. Do not be swayed or discouraged just because the MSP does not believe it fits the bill. We know from the HPRB in September that the threat does in fact fit the bill. Frankly, I dont expect the MSP to know what a SF86 is, despite me printing a full copy and attempting to explain why its bad if someone, let alone a militant intent on doing damage in this country, to have. While I hold the utmost respect for LOEs, everything is black and white to them, for good reason I may add. if it is not on their list of approved G&S, its denied.

Second, when you appeal, which I highly suggest you do, you need to do it under the circumstance that you are in fear. Print news articles, one of the ones I used was from a press release stating that ISIS has soldiers in 15 states, Maryland specifically named on the 5 states they released. Also print out articles about the TN shooting as well as how ISIS has "hacked government databases". This should be enough to get you over the hurdle in the eyes of the review board.

Remember, you need to show how this is beyond your own personal paranoia and nothing more. Use the MSP logic against them, as in black and white. Do you, as a clearance holder have a greater apprehended risk of danger to your life being that you were part of a database hack, which contains your life history for the past 15 years to present as well as all family information, than the average Maryland citizen on a daily basis? The answer is yes.

Dont fall into the trap some of the people are in on this board with the doom and gloom. We have seen recently that if you are able to make the case, you will be granted a permit. All you need to do is make the case. If you dont get the permit, oh well, you are in the same position you are in today and no harm no foul.

I will appeal and I have provided multiple articles including the Jordanian Pilot being burned alive by ISIS

Here was my reply to them:


Tfc XXXX,

I thought that case #438-87219 on 11/7/15 where the HPRB had overturned an MSP decision had already affirmed that ISIS was a credible threat and a permit was granted in that case.

Additionally I feel that I qualify as individual with my employment in an assumed risk position. I will package together additional information and mail into you regarding the threat the ISIS/ISIL posses to individuals such as myself.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

v/r,
XXXXX


GOOD AND SUBSTANTIAL REASON: an objective determination, arrived at by the assigned Maryland State Police Licensing Division employee based upon his investigation that the wearing, carrying or transporting of a handgun by the applicant is necessary for the applicant’s:

Business activities, either as the business owner or upon request of the owner on behalf of an employee.

Employment in a regulated profession such as security guard, private detective, armored car driver, and/or special police officer or rail road police officer.

Employment in an assumed risk position.

Personal protection - Personal protection requires:

a. Tangible evidence or evidence that may be documented and affirmed that the applicant’s life is in imminent danger and/or

b. Tangible evidence or evidence that may be documented or affirmed that the applicant is currently being targeted by individuals wishing to do the applicant harm.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

I will appeal and I have provided multiple articles including the Jordanian Pilot being burned alive by ISIS

Here was my reply to them:


Tfc XXXX,

I thought that case #438-87219 on 11/7/15 where the HPRB had overturned an MSP decision had already affirmed that ISIS was a credible threat and a permit was granted in that case.

Additionally I feel that I qualify as individual with my employment in an assumed risk position. I will package together additional information and mail into you regarding the threat the ISIS/ISIL posses to individuals such as myself.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

v/r,
XXXXX


GOOD AND SUBSTANTIAL REASON: an objective determination, arrived at by the assigned Maryland State Police Licensing Division employee based upon his investigation that the wearing, carrying or transporting of a handgun by the applicant is necessary for the applicant’s:

Business activities, either as the business owner or upon request of the owner on behalf of an employee.

Employment in a regulated profession such as security guard, private detective, armored car driver, and/or special police officer or rail road police officer.

Employment in an assumed risk position.

Personal protection - Personal protection requires:

a. Tangible evidence or evidence that may be documented and affirmed that the applicant’s life is in imminent danger and/or

b. Tangible evidence or evidence that may be documented or affirmed that the applicant is currently being targeted by individuals wishing to do the applicant harm.

Good. Stay the course. Its a long convoluted process which we all do not agree with and maybe someday this will all go away. In the meantime, stay on target.

I now need to figure out how the board is going to contact me in order to inform me that my hearing is set. Its been one month already. I cant wait to attend the hearing.