SB281 belt fed ??

[Markp]

Yeah, I got that.

Two things:
1. I don't think barrel length has traditionally been used to define a copy, but say it does:

2. If it's not a copy (barrel length different), then, it's not a listed assault long gun.... and thus wouldn't be exempt from the copy cat clause.


So, I'm still not getting it.

-Jim

But they have, all CAR-15's and AR-15's from Colt were regulated. So how many different barrel length compromise this family of weapon, from just Colt alone?

Colt doesn't even MAKE the CAR-15 and AR-15 anymore.


LE6940 Safe-Semi, 16” Barrel
LE6943 Safe-Semi, 11.5" Barrel
LE6944 Safe-Semi, 14.5” Barrel
LE6945CQB Safe-Semi, 10.3" Barrel

Are these all not regulated? They all come from Colt, not one is an AR-15 or CAR-15, these are all "advanced law enforcement carbines" per colt's website.

 

[Kingjamez]

Focus your attention on the 'A semiautomatic centerfire rifle...' part.

Then look up the definition of rifle.

Then refer to my post above.

Ok,
From MD law:

(e) Rifle. -- "Rifle" means a weapon that is: **

(1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and **

(2) designed or redesigned, and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

How does this help with the SBR argument? I think SBR fits that description above.

 

[Kingjamez]

But they have, all CAR-15's and AR-15's from Colt were regulated. So how many different barrel length compromise this family of weapon, from just Colt alone?

Colt doesn't even MAKE the CAR-15 and AR-15 anymore.


LE6940 Safe-Semi, 16” Barrel
LE6943 Safe-Semi, 11.5" Barrel
LE6944 Safe-Semi, 14.5” Barrel
LE6945CQB Safe-Semi, 10.3" Barrel

Are these all not regulated?

They certainly are regulated! And thus will be banned, regardless of barrel length or OAL shorter than 29". OAL isn't part of this equation as far as I can tell.

I know that I'm missing something obvious, so I'm going to think about this for a bit.

-Jim

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Agreed. It is called the "current criminal compliance loophole" (tm).

We were born sinners and made criminals.

Back to the thread at hand....

 

[Markp]

Ok,
From MD law:

How does this help with the SBR argument? I think SBR fits that description above.

Yes, but assault long guns are NOT subject to the "copy cat" rules, they are specifically exempted, so if it's regulated now, it's ok to SBR it later!


(B) “ASSAULT LONG GUN” MEANS ANY ASSAULT WEAPON LISTED UNDER § 5–101(R)(2) OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE.

(E) (1) “COPYCAT WEAPON” MEANS:

(I) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT CAN ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
2. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER; OR
3. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR;

(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS A FIXED MAGAZINE WITH THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS;
(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 29 INCHES;

(2) “COPYCAT WEAPON” DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR AN ASSAULT PISTOL. <- If it's on the list, it is NOT a COPYCAT WEAPON.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Ok,
From MD law:


How does this help with the SBR argument? I think SBR fits that description above.

Skip all the NFA paperwork for SBR's and just make a LBNR (long barrel[16"+] non rifle).

See post 18 for instructions.

 

[Markp]

Yep, Not designed to be fired from the shoulder/No Buttstock = No Rifle = No Ban

 

[Kingjamez]

Yes, but assault long guns are NOT subject to the "copy cat" rules, they are specifically exempted, so if it's regulated now, it's ok to SBR it later!

Ahh.... the lightbulb finally lit!

Just for clarification to make sure I've got this right:

Assault long gun, by definition must be a rifle under the law. The leap here is that SBR's are NOT rifles under MD code despite the above definition of rifle matching a SBR. Change it over to a SBR and the law now considers it a "handgun" due to the specific call out of SBR's in the definition of handgun.

Now your SBR is no longer a rifle, and thus not covered by SB281. Since it's not a rifle, the copycat clause also doesn't apply.

Note that the 29" OAL thing doesn't play in this scenario, just the 26" OAL (or less than 16" barrel) required to get you into SBR land.

-Jim

 

[Markp]

Ahh.... the lightbulb finally lit!

Just for clarification to make sure I've got this right:

Assault long gun, by definition must be a rifle under the law. The leap here is that SBR's are NOT rifles under MD code despite the above definition of rifle matching a SBR. Change it over to a SBR and the law now considers it a "handgun" due to the specific call out of SBR's in the definition of handgun.

Now your SBR is no longer a rifle, and thus not covered by SB281. Since it's not a rifle, the copycat clause also doesn't apply.

Note that the 29" OAL thing doesn't play in this scenario, just the 26" OAL (or less than 16" barrel) required to get you into SBR land.

-Jim

Actually more specifically, Assault Long Gun = the old list of regulated firearms. If it was on that list, it's an "assault long gun" and thus banned on Oct 1, 2013. However, if it's on that list, it cannot be subject to any of the copy cat provisions and as you correctly note, SBR's are not rifles under MD law they are considered handguns (as the definition is anything with a barrel less than 16").

You just can't have it both ways. It can't be a copycat weapon if you say it's an assault long gun, and it must be an assault long gun if it is on the list of dirty weapons. The barrel length and overall length on existing regulated weapons is open to be changed to any length a person wants, because as long as it remains a "assault long gun" it can't be a "copy cat" weapon. We've heard enough of this "well the receiver is the gun" crap to let them stew in it.

You are most correct is noting that the instant it's no longer a "semi-automatic centerfire rifle", unless it's a listed assault pistol, it's no longer subject to SB281.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Actually more specifically, Assault Long Gun = the old list of regulated firearms. If it was on that list, it's an "assault long gun" and thus banned on Oct 1, 2013. However, if it's on that list, it cannot be subject to any of the copy cat provisions and as you correctly note, SBR's are not rifles under MD law they are considered handguns.

You just can't have it both ways. It can't be a copycat weapon if you say it's an assault long gun, and it must be an assault long gun if it is on the list of dirty weapons. The barrel length and overall length on existing regulated weapons is open to be changed to any length a person wants, because as long as it remains a "assault long gun" it can't be a "copy cat" weapon. We've heard enough of this "well the receiver is the gun" crap to let them stew in it.

Just like you can put a stock on an 'assault pistol' and it would be legal in Md. because it is no longer a pistol.

I enjoy figuring out these 'loopholes' because it just get's the the anti-gunners going for the nuclear option faster. And hopefully when that time comes people will finally pull their heads out of ...the sand and get active.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Yep, Not designed to be fired from the shoulder/No Buttstock = No Rifle = No Ban

You heard it here first folks. Markp

 

[Markp]

LMAO, Ya... Gotta love it! I do appreciate the humor in passing this bill that made us all safer. Thanks MoM, was this what you were hoping for?

 

[Kingjamez]

LMAO, Ya... Gotta love it! I do appreciate the humor in passing this bill that made us all safer. Thanks MoM, was this what you were hoping for?

As it stands now the wait time for regulated transfers is growing, by late september it may be FASTER to do a Form 4 SBR than a regulated firearm....

-Jim

 

[Ab_Normal]

As it stands now the wait time for regulated transfers is growing, by late september it may be FASTER to do a Form 4 SBR than a regulated firearm....

-Jim

Well they could apply the stock removal technique to the current law as a means around the waiting period. I suspect only SOT's could do it though since they would be 'manufacturing' a different type of firearm from it's current designation even though the manufacturing means removing a part.

Call the AR equivalent the MS-15. That ought to get their panties in a bunch.

 

[Armati]

So it would seem that TNW semi-auto M2HB .50 cal would cash-and-carry.

http://www.tnwfirearms.com/

No fixed or detachable mag.

Over 29 inches.

No flash suppressor.

 

[Markp]

So it would seem that TNW semi-auto M2HB .50 cal would cash-and-carry.

http://www.tnwfirearms.com/

NOT A RIFLE

No fixed or detachable mag. Not Applicable

Over 29 inches. Not Applicable

No flash suppressor. Not Applicable

It's not a rifle, so you can have a detachable magazine, you could make a shorty 50 at 28" overall length, and you could put a sound suppressor on it and it would still be unregulated and not banned.

Mark

 

[Ab_Normal]

So it would seem that TNW semi-auto M2HB .50 cal would cash-and-carry.

http://www.tnwfirearms.com/

No fixed or detachable mag.

Over 29 inches.

No flash suppressor.

Yep. They are not that dangerous.

 

[Armati]

It's not a rifle...

As in not designed to be fired from the shoulder - per MD law?

 

[Markp]

As in not designed to be fired from the shoulder - per MD law?

Well to be a rifle, it must be a rifle, which means a firearm designed to be shot from the shoulder and with a barrel of 16" or greater.

(e) Rifle.- "Rifle" means a weapon that is:

(1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and

(2) designed or redesigned, and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

And then this:

(f) Short-barreled rifle.- "Short-barreled rifle" means:

(1) a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long; or

(2) a weapon that has an overall length of less than 26 inches and that was made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise.


If the barrel is less than 16" in length, it is then a Short Barreled Rifle, which is defined separately and is NOT a rifle. Which is why it is defined separately.

Finally, this is the final nail in the coffin, because a handgun is not a "rifle", but includes "short barreled rifles", clearly these weapons are two distinct categories - handguns and not handguns:

(c) Handgun.-

(1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.

(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.

(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

Mark