SB281 belt fed ??

[direxpgw]

Trying to decipher all the issues with this new bill and it seems like in a nutshell no "assault weapons" purchased after 10/1. Does the states definition of "assault weapon" cover a semi-auto belt fed weapon (i.e. M60 type era)? Seems like a crazy question but if it doesnt accept a detachable mag but only is supplied via belt does it fall in the technical definition????

 

[mac1_131]

not a lawyer, but I don't think belt feed qualifies as a detachable magazine. it means exactly what it says. so I think semi-auto M1919's etc are fine

also, they are not on the named list, and they would not trip the two-feature copycat test either so even if it was construed as a detachable magazine, I don't think it would be banned.

 

[Markp]

This is NOT an assault weapon and IS NOT REGULATED.

However the definition of "Detachable Magazine" is quite clear.

“DETACHABLE MAGAZINE” MEANS AN AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE THAT CAN BE REMOVED READILY FROM A FIREARM WITHOUT REQUIRING DISASSEMBLY OF THE FIREARM ACTION OR WITHOUT THE USE OF A TOOL, INCLUDING A BULLET OR CARTRIDGE.

So belts are clearly ammunition feeding devices, but if you need to disassemble the firearm action (E.G. opening the action of the SG-43), it is NOT a detachable magazine. Additionally, the SG-43 (and many other belt feds) are not rifles, they are crew served weapons that are not designed to be shouldered, and thus not assault weapons regardless of other "evil" features.

Mark

 

[mac1_131]

if you want to call them magazines, the minute you connect the 11th link after 10/1/2013 you will be committing a crime as you have just manufactured a banned magazine

 

[rstickle]

Oh look, a loophole!

 

[Markp]

if you want to call them magazines, the minute you connect the 11th link after 10/1/2013 you will be committing a crime as you have just manufactured a banned magazine

Only if you do it in the state of MD, plus my SG-43 belts are non-disintegrating, what now? On the 1919A4, you only have to leave 12 connected links with empty cartridges and it's never a problem!

Oh, my, look another loophole. This is what happens when clueless people are in charge of the law.

 

[Hopalong]

However the definition of "Detachable Magazine" is quite clear.

“DETACHABLE MAGAZINE” MEANS AN AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE THAT CAN BE REMOVED READILY FROM A FIREARM WITHOUT REQUIRING DISASSEMBLY OF THE FIREARM ACTION OR WITHOUT THE USE OF A TOOL, INCLUDING A BULLET OR CARTRIDGE.

So belts are clearly ammunition feeding devices, but if you need to disassemble the firearm action (E.G. opening the action of the SG-43), it is NOT a detachable magazine. Additionally, the SG-43 (and many other belt feds) are not rifles, they are crew served weapons that are not designed to be shouldered, and thus not assault weapons regardless of other "evil" features.

Great catch there Mark. But my question is this: can that belt be used in any firearm that doesn't require opening the action or using tools to remove it? If that's the case, it's still a detachable magazine, even if it's not "detachable" from that weapon. If "detachable" was based on the weapon you're currently using, and not the magazine itself, we'd all be able to buy 30-rounders if we had an AR with a bullet button.

This is NOT an assault weapon and IS NOT REGULATED.

We should post that pic with this caption somewhere where our cabal of MDGA gun grabbers is sure to see and watch their reactions. B^)

 

[mac1_131]

actually, it would probably have been better had this thread not come up at all

the cloth belts were possessed before the effective date, so are OK

glad to hear there is a work around for the links

waiting for the next whack-a-mole thread...

 

[Markp]

Great catch there Mark. But my question is this: can that belt be used in any firearm that doesn't require opening the action or using tools to remove it? If that's the case, it's still a detachable magazine, even if it's not "detachable" from that weapon. If "detachable" was based on the weapon you're currently using, and not the magazine itself, we'd all be able to buy 30-rounders if we had an AR with a bullet button.

We should post that pic with this caption somewhere where our cabal of MDGA gun grabbers is sure to see and watch their reactions. B^)

I was not able to buy these belts in MD anyway, I purchased them in VA and returned with them to MD. However, I suppose if I had a rifle that accepted this belt, it would be ok to use it in another weapon. The possession is not banned.

Interestingly, you have a point, what if I was building a weapon with a fixed magazine?

A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.


Well, as long as that weapon did not meet the definition of an "Copy Cat" Weapon, I think you could at the minimum purchase the parts to build it.

(2) “COPYCAT WEAPON” DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR AN ASSAULT PISTOL.

So in the case of an AR-15 with a fixed magazine, the prohibition against fixed high capacity magazines does not apply, since an AR-15 is an assault long gun. (e.g. fixed 100 round magazine) should be good to go, as there is no prohibition to converting to a high capacity fixed magazine on an existing "assault long gun".

(E) (1) “COPYCAT WEAPON” MEANS:

(I) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT CAN ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
2. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER; OR
3. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR;

(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS A FIXED MAGAZINE WITH THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS;
(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 29 INCHES;



In my case with the SG-43, it doesn't matter whether it's a detachable magazine or not, it's not a centerfire rifle, so it's all GTG.

 

[Hopalong]

Aren't gun control laws fun?

 

[Markp]

Aren't gun control laws fun?

This also means that ANY "assault long gun" can be made to be under 29" at anytime and made into an SBR if desired, since by law, it can't be a "copy cat" assault weapon. Dooh, SBR that AK-47!

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Aren't gun control laws fun?

Good thing is every criminal is studying the law as to be in full compliance.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Good thing is every criminal is studying the law as to be in full compliance.

Negative. Markp made a good post about them being protected by the Fifth Amendment and self incrimination.

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Negative. Markp made a good post about them being protected by the Fifth Amendment and self incrimination.

It was a hint at this unserving legislation. It does no good to those who are cavalier to the law and society. This law only hurts the collecters, enthusiasts, hobbyists, Second Amendment, etc.

No crook is going to think twice about violating anyone of these laws. We law abiding majority must instead wade through the quagmire in an attempt to remain ever upright.

 

[Kingjamez]

This also means that ANY "assault long gun" can be made to be under 29" at anytime and made into an SBR if desired, since by law, it can't be a "copy cat" assault weapon. Dooh, SBR that AK-47!

Help me understand this one Mark. I see where you are going, but wouldn't the above hinge on barrel length being a criteria for determining if something is a copy of an "assault long gun"?

Push me along as I can't quite wrap my head around this one.

-Jim

 

[Markp]

Help me understand this one Mark. I see where you are going, but wouldn't the above hinge on barrel length being a criteria for determining if something is a copy of an "assault long gun"?

Push me along as I can't quite wrap my head around this one.

-Jim

What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

African or European?

Ahhhhh


What is the length of an AR-15 barrel?

Carbine, pistol, or rifle?

Ahhhhh!!!!



What is the barrel and overall length of an AK semi-automatic rifle in any form?

AMD-65, Krink, RPK, or PSL?

Ahhhh!!!!

And just for good measure, as soon as they say it's "not a rifle", they lose. (e.g. "Well, rifles have 16 inch and longer barrels, The AMD-65 and the Krink aren't rifles.") Great, game over.

These fvckers wrote it, now they have to live with it.

 

[Ab_Normal]

It was a hint at this unserving legislation. It does no good to those who are cavalier to the law and society. This law only hurts the collecters, enthusiasts, hobbyists, Second Amendment, etc.

No crook is going to think twice about violating anyone of these laws. We law abiding majority must instead wade through the quagmire in an attempt to remain ever upright.

Agreed. It is called the "current criminal compliance loophole" (tm).

 

[Ab_Normal]

This also means that ANY "assault long gun" can be made to be under 29" at anytime and made into an SBR if desired, since by law, it can't be a "copy cat" assault weapon. Dooh, SBR that AK-47!

Or just take the ______ off.

 

[Kingjamez]

What is the length of an AR-15 barrel?

Carbine, pistol, or rifle?

Yeah, I got that.

Two things:
1. I don't think barrel length has traditionally been used to define a copy, but say it does:

2. If it's not a copy (barrel length different), then, it's not a listed assault long gun.... and thus wouldn't be exempt from the copy cat clause.


So, I'm still not getting it.

-Jim

 

[Ab_Normal]

Yeah, I got that.

Two things:
1. I don't think barrel length has traditionally been used to define a copy, but say it does:

2. If it's not a copy (barrel length different), then, it's not a listed assault long gun.... and thus wouldn't be exempt from the copy cat clause.


So, I'm still not getting it.

-Jim

Focus your attention on the 'A semiautomatic centerfire rifle...' part.

Then look up the definition of rifle.

Then refer to my post above.