SB281 and Antiques

[Grey_Man]

I know we've discussed SB281 affecting certain C&R purchases, namely the CZ-82 and various Hi-Power handguns, because of the 10 rd. mag limit. Before I went to bed last night, another thought popped into my head. What about the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin 1889? It has a 12 rd. mag. But from what I can tell they are all considered antiques. You don't even need a C&R to receive them. Are thye affected at all by the law or are they considered "non-firearms" for lack of a better word?

 

[zoostation]

It's a bolt action so it's not affected (if it is a fixed magazine rifle).

 

[Grey_Man]

I thought magazine capacity was magazine capacity, regardless of the type action?

 

[kazan182]

I thought magazine capacity was magazine capacity, regardless of the type action?

I believe this is correct. I just went to a class today about the new law and no mention was made to the action type of the firearm it was being used in....just the size.

 

[Grey_Man]

After looking around on the net a little bit, I came across several references to antiques not being classified as firearms in MD. I would think they would be unaffected.

 

[kazan182]

After looking around on the net a little bit, I came across several references to antiques not being classified as firearms in MD. I would think they would be unaffected.

yes, the firearms themselves. Mags are different.

 

[zoostation]

I believe this is correct. I just went to a class today about the new law and no mention was made to the action type of the firearm it was being used in....just the size.

I was thinking the Model 1889 was a fixed mag rifle for some reason. You are correct, if it is a detachable mag the type of action does not matter.

 

[dblas]

Nope, from the bill itself.



Plus it's an antique in this case and not considered a firearm in MD anyway.


PS--Not a lawyer!!!

What you have quoted is in regards to copy cat weapons.

What you are looking for is on Page 15, 4-305(b)

(b) A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than [20] 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

There is no specification for handgun, bolt action rifle, semi-auto rifle. It applies to ALL firearms.

Since the weapon in question is an Antique, I believe the law does not apply to such weapons.

 

[zoostation]

What you have quoted is in regards to copy cat weapons.

What you are looking for is on Page 15, 4-305(b)

(b) A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than [20] 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

There is no specification for handgun, bolt action rifle, semi-auto rifle. It applies to ALL firearms.

Since the weapon in question is an Antique, I believe the law does not apply to such weapons.

Oh, my bad. I was thinking that was a fixed magazine rifle for some reason. Derr, I should know better too, I used to own a K31. I cleaned up my posts to avoid confusion.

I agree with your assessment. It is not a "detachable magazine for a firearm," it is a detachable magazine for a non-firearm (antique), so would likely not be covered.

 

[kazan182]

You may want to see above ref. a direct quote from the bill please. It is only semi-automatic centerfire rifles affected.

From what I am hearing you apparently can't trust what they are saying in the classes. They either don't fully understand the bill or are purposefully overstating its scope, or maybe some of both.

Hmmm..perhaps I am wrong but I think what was quoted is referring to the definition of a assault firearm (or the copycat definition)..not specifically pertaining to prohibited mag capacity in it's own section in the law.

I left my docs at work from the meeting so I will take a look at that first thing in the AM.

I am trying to figure some of this out so...I looked up the def of antique under Md Criminal Law 4-201 which reads:

§4–201.
(a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.
(b) “Antique firearm” means:
(1) a firearm, including a firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar ignition system, manufactured before 1899; or
(2) a replica of a firearm described in item (1) of this subsection that:
(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition; or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is
no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade.

This clearly says firearm. So, I don't know. Even the attorney's were shrugging their shoulders today at some things...and who would get to ship a mag here over 10 rounds no matter what weapon the mag is for anyway?

 

[zoostation]

Hmmm..perhaps I am wrong but I think what was quoted is referring to the definition of a assault firearm (or the copycat definition)..not specifically pertaining to prohibited mag capacity in it's own section in the law.

I left my docs at work from the meeting so I will take a look at that first thing in the AM.

I am trying to figure some of this out so...I looked up the def of antique under Md Criminal Law 4-201 which reads:

§4–201.
(a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.
(b) “Antique firearm” means:
(1) a firearm, including a firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar ignition system, manufactured before 1899; or
(2) a replica of a firearm described in item (1) of this subsection that:
(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition; or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is
no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade.

This clearly says firearm. So, I don't know. Even the attorney's were shrugging their shoulders today at some things...and who would get to ship a mag here over 10 rounds no matter what weapon the mag is for anyway?

I was thinking the Model 1899 was a fixed mag rifle like I mentioned before. My bad on that.

I don't think the law would apply to a an antique firearm's magazine if the magazine only fit antiques. If the magazine also fit non-antique firearms then it gets more dicey.

But then again, what do they mean by "firearm" in this context

Ain't it fun how non-sensical the whole damn thing is...........

 

[Grey_Man]

Ugh. I keep finding references on websites that say antiques are exempt from MD state law, but I can't determine where in the legalese it comes from. If that is the truth, then the magazine from an 1889 would be no more subject to regulation than the magazine of an airsoft gun.

 

[Boom Boom]

Antique guns (pre-1899) are not firearms and require no paperwork of any kind. It's federal law. MD magazine law applies only to firearms.

 

[Melnic]

Antique guns (pre-1899) are not firearms and require no paperwork of any kind. It's federal law. MD magazine law applies only to firearms.

So I get to keep my son's 400 round airsoft magazine.... cool

 

[Grey_Man]

If things keep going this way with gun laws and ammo prices, I'll be getting an airsoft gun too.