SB1 on voting list in House Jud Committee for this am 4/6/23 @ 9am

[thomfantomas]

They are on their last fcuking straw,so once this is ruled unconstitutional,then they can go kick rocks and fcûk themselves!

 

[Bertfish]

They are on their last fcuking straw,so once this is ruled unconstitutional,then they can go kick rocks and fcûk themselves!

You need to drink less Red Bull

 

[Bertfish]

No way they let SB1 die. No way. 824 just went to Moore. SB1 will go Monday barring catastrophe

 

[thomfantomas]

You need to drink less Red Bull

I don't drink that artificial garbage

 

[Georges2nd]

If they are smart that’s what they’ll do. That gives a year for lawsuits to give everyone an idea of what might be allowed for sensitive places without MD testing those waters. Hb824 is already a crap show, but it’ll be an uphill battle for now on it. They can then claim they’ve done things. And will do more things harder next year.

My concern not passing sb 1 and make worse bill next session

 

[lazarus]

My concern not passing sb 1 and make worse bill next session

I doubt that a lot. By next year there will be a lot more piled up judicial precedent as head winds against them doing it.

 

[LAC_MD]

Anyone that uses a conjunction after stating "i am pro 2a" is not pro 2a IMO.

So in your opinion can one be pro life but be ok with abortions in certain circumstances? Everything does not have to be absolute…

 

[6-Pack]

And where would you draw that line in determining what I and others may and may not need? Because you seem to take the view that what I will be allowed to possess is a function of what you yourself shall pre-determine.

It’s the same line telling you which religions are acceptable and unacceptable or what food you can eat for breakfast.

I think I can determine what is appropriate for me better than someone else telling me what’s appropriate.

 

[Phoenix_1295]

I doubt that a lot. By next year there will be a lot more piled up judicial precedent as head winds against them doing it.

There will also be more data/stats showing that permit holders are not causing crime or safety issues.

MSP, reportedly, had advised during the bill hearing that there had not been any safety/crime issues involving permit holders approved since July ‘22.

 

[Odarlin1]

I totally disagree. hb824 really changes nothing except the price and some qualification stuff.

sb 1 limits a whole lot of places that we can carry

Ok. Thnaks. But raising the cost really will hinder many who may need it most

 

[Bertfish]

There will also be more data/stats showing that permit holders are not causing crime or safety issues.

MSP, reportedly, had advised during the bill hearing that there had not been any safety/crime issues involving permit holders approved since July ‘22.

They don't care

They admitted in the hearings there is no crime issue from permit holders. Even the expert witnesses from Everytown and Hopkins stated such.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I totally disagree. hb824 really changes nothing except the price and some qualification stuff.

sb 1 limits a whole lot of places that we can carry

Since they liked to quote footnote 9...

"That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry"

Two different unrelated statements . Heck , at least two different discussions .

Scotty is discussing the relative degree of Suck of the two Bills .

FrankZ is discussing 824 in the context of Potential Constitutionality thereof .

**********************

SB-1 and HB-824 both such, both are bad ideas , and ideally both should be opposes.

One of them " normal average sucks " , the other " Mega Ultra Galactic Level Sucks . Y'all know which is witch .

While both are bad law and bad policy , one is deliberately probing to find the outer limits of Constitutionality ( and I'll hold dies) , the other smashes it like Donky Kong driving an 18 wheeler thru a billboard . Y'all know which is which .

One if passed , will eventually be smashed flatter than a door know from 20 paces by SCOTUS . The other if passed; might or might not be impacted by a complex SCOTUS dance routine around Undue- Ness of Burdens ; involving multiple states , of which MD may directly or indirectly be party . Y'all know which is which.

**********************

The big Philosophical Questions:

Can you point out different degrees of Suckness without approving of , or directly or indirectly endorsing a minimum level of Acceptability of the Lesser Sucking , but still Sucking alternative?

This has been the crux of Maryland politics for 57 years

 

[RFBfromDE]

There sure is a lot of discussion about how far up the ass one is willing to be raped before saying “no”

 

[lazarus]

They don't care

They admitted in the hearings there is no crime issue from permit holders. Even the expert witnesses from Everytown and Hopkins stated such.

Not entirely true. I forget her name, but one of the Dems on the house committee had her tear jerking testimony about a "permit holder" who murdered his ex girlfriend across the street from the Delegates house. She admitted later she did no actual research on permit holders committing crimes. And never said she KNEW said dude actually had a W&C permit. Just that he had a permit and was legally carrying a gun at the time.

Sure....

Unless this was really, really recently, he almost certainly didn't have a W&C since almost no one in MD did. So he'd be violating transport law as an Ex-GFs isn't a legal destination to be transporting a handgun. And probably carry law since he probably drove over there with it loaded. Then he committed murder, which is pretty illegal in all states. At best SB1 would have added more illegal by carrying in her dwelling without her permission.

I think we can all agree that making it illegal for him to have carried a handgun into his ex's house without her permission is what would have stopped it.

"Oh, damn. I don't want to get hemmed up on that charge. I need to rethink all of my life decisions".

Maybe it'll be like vampires now? They'll try to trick us into giving them permission to bring a gun into our house so that they can murder or rob us.

It was so much stupid (or malice) it hurt. A tragedy, used to further ends, likely with no actual connection to the bill under discussion and which the bill will not address at all.

The only way sensitive place bans have any chance of actually DOING anything, is if the location already has sufficient security to keep it safe, because then people who are intent on carrying for malicious purposes would be screened out too...otherwise said people are going to carry for their malicious purposes anyway, even if it is illegal to carry there.

So all SB1 does, is ensure that some people who will comply with the law, who are already law abiding citizens and would be law abiding citizens, and are the most likely to actually protect themselves and others, are disarmed. It doesn't disarm those intent on bad ends. It only makes things worse. Not better.

 

[elwojo]

Not entirely true. I forget her name, but one of the Dems on the house committee had her tear jerking testimony about a "permit holder" who murdered his ex girlfriend across the street from the Delegates house. She admitted later she did no actual research on permit holders committing crimes. And never said she KNEW said dude actually had a W&C permit. Just that he had a permit and was legally carrying a gun at the time.

Bartlett.



Anyone know the specifics of this case? Who was the murderer? Did they have a permit? I never heard her talk about specifics other than it was a house "across the street" from her.

 

[Some Guy]

Bartlett.



Anyone know the specifics of this case? Who was the murderer? Did they have a permit? I never heard her talk about specifics other than it was a house "across the street" from her.

Hysterically, Delegate Bartlett was challenged by Delegate Arikan about the quality of data to which delegate Bartlett refers when she said that wear & carry permit holders present risks (my synopsis of Bartlett's statement, not verbatim.)

I'm not good with youtube but one can find this exchange from 1:13:06 - 1:14:04 in the link below.

Committees - Media

Arikan is sharp.

 

[lazarus]

Bartlett.



Anyone know the specifics of this case? Who was the murderer? Did they have a permit? I never heard her talk about specifics other than it was a house "across the street" from her.

I assume they didn’t have a W&C. Just a claim by Bartlett that they had a permit, simply because they legally owned the gun (likely true that they legally owned it).

Some of the dems are dim enough to confuse a wear and carry and a HQL. They are both permits after all. So they must be the same thing, right (eye roll)?

But Bartlett was making the claim in her story after Republicans were saying permit holders aren’t the ones committing crimes.

I kind of wish Arikan had called Bartlett out and specifically asked for proof that the guy had a wear and carry permit, or just a HQL. Bartlett admired she didn’t research anything. She’d just heard about the story because it happened across the street from her (I highly doubt she got more than the neighbor rumor and Baltimore sun story). But as Arikan pointed even if all exactly true, one anecdote is not data.

 

[Phoenix_1295]

Bartlett.



Anyone know the specifics of this case? Who was the murderer? Did they have a permit? I never heard her talk about specifics other than it was a house "across the street" from her.

Bartlett’s story starts at 1:09:17 on YouTube time stamp.

The only thing I could find that sounds similar occurred in Charles County and I didn’t see a “Bartlett” on the street in SDAT.

MURDER USA: Andre Sales killed his ex-girlfriend and two others in her family, a friend, and self

MURDER USA Andre Sales killed his ex-girlfriend and two others in her family, a friend, and self Charles County Sheriff Troy Berry reports that on November 4, 2022, shortly before 4 p.m., officers …

www.thechesapeaketoday.com

 

[Billyb]

While I am not certain, I anticipate a deal has been made with the Senate to let HB824 be this years "make law abiding citizens criminals" bill and they will nix SB1. It all seemed to smooth otherwise.

After reading this article, it seems you may be correct about how this will play out. I guess we won't know details until the final bill as amended is released. It sounds like the list of restricted places has been reduced, but it's not clear to what extent. It also looks like a business will be required to post a "no guns" sign, which will have the force of law. In any case, the quote from Senator Smith at the end makes it sound like this will be the final bill approved by the Senate, whatever is in it.

Senate approves gun bill, but not without heated late debate - Maryland Matters

The Senate approved a comprehensive gun bill, but not without late night drama that threatened to have it reviewed on the last day of session.

www.marylandmatters.org

"The amended bill would still prohibit gun owners from carrying them at places including hospitals, preschools, election polling sites and state or local government offices."

"The House also amended the penalties previously passed by the Senate for illegal wear, carry or transport of a gun. Under the amended bill, someone could face up a year in jail, a fine up to $1,000, or both. The same penalty could be imposed if a person trespasses on private property without permission or enters a property with a “a clear and conspicuous sign” that doesn’t allow for firearms."

"After Friday night’s vote, Smith said the House measure goes back to the House of Delegates and if those members agree with the Senate amendments, it would head to the desk of Gov. Wes Moore (D) for his signature.

“It’s a significant victory for the people. It’s going to make us a lot safer, especially in reaction to Bruen [case] in balancing the realities of violence, gun violence, and also the realities of more guns being in public places and spaces,” he said. “I think that this is a good bill and will make us safer here in Maryland.”

This breaking news story was updated on Saturday, April 8, at 9 a.m. "

Still plenty of infringement that MSI will need to fight, but maybe not as bad as if could have been.

 

[gtodave]

I am definitely pro 2A, but as with anything there are limits. No one’s needs a missile launcher, fighter jet, tank etc.

I'll decide what I need, thank you very much.