Safest way to send payment for an NFA item

[MudRhino]

I think I have a seller lined up for a M11/9 and am wondering what is the safest way to pay the gentleman (safest for me that is)? I am buying from a private seller in Florida and although there has so far been nothing suspicious, I am wondering what the recommended method is for sending payment. I know there is always some chance of being ripped off in a deal like this but would love to minimize risk and protect myself to the greatest reasonable extent possible.

 

[mopar92]

Postal money order. Any fraud commited is a Federal offense and investigated by Postal Inspectors. I just learned this myself from MDS.

 

[ericoak]

I sent a certified check to my sellers house. If he didn't live there he would have to stake out and steal the mail everyday from somebody else and then cash the check the with a false identity.

 

[MudRhino]

Postal money order. Any fraud commited is a Federal offense and investigated by Postal Inspectors. I just learned this myself from MDS.

I sent a certified check to my sellers house. If he didn't live there he would have to stake out and steal the mail everyday from somebody else and then cash the check the with a false identity.

I love this board more and more everyday; so much great information. I just did an internet search and confirmed the recourses for fraud involving postal money orders. I think that's the way I will go unless he won't accept them in which case I'll do a certified check. I also just found the seller on the Better Business Bureau site and it seems he owns a body shop and has no unresolved complaints so I am feeling more comfortable. Thanks for the advice fellas!

 

[mopar92]

You're welcome sir. Glad to help. My info was paraphrased from another thread about GunsAmerica.

 

[BeltBuckle]

If he won't accept a PMO than either there is a serious rat in the woodpile, or he's just bloody well round the twist. In either of those cases, the highway is probably your best option. Good luck!

 

[Mark75H]

If he won't accept a PMO than either there is a serious rat in the woodpile, or he's just bloody well round the twist. In either of those cases, the highway is probably your best option. Good luck!

Bingo! If someone won't accept a USPS MO ... stay away. The US Treasury requires banks to treat them the same as cash

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Postal MOs are the standard for gun sales in the US. Above $3K you have to give Social security info which is bull... They are a good way to go and I probably send 50 out a year or more. Above $3k I like to do cashiers check. I figure at that price I will hunt down and shoot someone ripping me off...

...plus people usually don't rip off people they know are armed!

Then send it USPS priority.

 

[rsideout]

I always write up a detailed purchase agreement with all of the information on the sale. (purchaser, seller, SN of gun, transferring C3/SOT, and ALL terms and agreements. I also get a copy of their Form 4 for verification that they own the gun.). Both parties sign the agreement before I send money. I've always paid for my MG's and other high dollar firearms with a personal check. I've also done the same thing with vehicles and heavy equipment sales. Never had a problem. Bottom line, you need to be comfortable with the deal and the person on the other side. It's pretty simple to verify the person's address against phone records or tax records if they own a home.

PM me if you need a hand. I can email you a word file of one of my agreements.

 

[Flipz]

I always write up a detailed purchase agreement with all of the information on the sale. (purchaser, seller, SN of gun, transferring C3/SOT, and ALL terms and agreements. I also get a copy of their Form 4 for verification that they own the gun.). Both parties sign the agreement before I send money. I've always paid for my MG's and other high dollar firearms with a personal check. I've also done the same thing with vehicles and heavy equipment sales. Never had a problem. Bottom line, you need to be comfortable with the deal and the person on the other side. It's pretty simple to verify the person's address against phone records or tax records if they own a home.

PM me if you need a hand. I can email you a word file of one of my agreements.

This is excellent advice! Who knew rsideout had it in him. Just joking. He's always helpful and a wealth of knowledge.

The only thing I would add is to have each parties signature notarized. Notaries are required to keep records which include the address of the signing party as well as additional info. Parties are required to present identification to the notary so that their identity can be confirmed. When each signature is notarized it creates a fully binding legal contract that cannot be argued.

I know it sounds like a lot to do. But when you're laying down that much coin, there's no such thing as overkill.

 

[rsideout]

Flipz, good suggestion and I agree that the extra step of having the signatures notarized can't hurt. However, in my case, by the time I've gone through the due diligence and the back and forth of the written agreement, I've always been fully comfortable with the transaction. The purchaser just needs to decide if he needs this additional level of confirmation and if it is convenient for both parties.

 

[Flipz]

Flipz, good suggestion and I agree that the extra step of having the signatures notarized can't hurt. However, in my case, by the time I've gone through the due diligence and the back and forth of the written agreement, I've always been fully comfortable with the transaction. The purchaser just needs to decide if he needs this additional level of confirmation and if it is convenient for both parties.

I definitely agree that its all about being comfortable. For me that means getting the agreement notarized. And that's just because I deal with notarized documents all the time. Others may feel fine after doing some backround homework. It's all about what each individual is comfortable with.

To me, its just so easy to have a document notarized I figure why not. It enhances the legality and enforceability of the agreement. And, its free for most bank customers as long as they have an account at said bank. For me its really a "why not" thing.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Notarized? Really? How much are we talking? $20K purchase? $10K purchase? I mean it would have to be a pretty high amount. Otherwise its a big pain for nothing.

In all this, you have to ask yourself... if you get screwed are you going to sue them? If its not worth a lawsuit then its not worth your time to do much more than a postal money order. Getting things notarized means nothing if you are not going to sue.

I have been screwed a very few times. You know whay I did... every time I was having a bad day I came home and looked up some really nasty gay porn that gave away free email porn. I had to only half look but I signed the assholes up for all kinds of nasty stuff. You know how you can get free tampons... we I had their address... Then paid for it... and I am guessing had to get a new email!

I got one guy really good. He was well known in the MG world and he screwed me a little on a deal. Two years later he bought $400 worth of stuff from me. I sold it to him... waited until I got the money... then I emailed him and told him he was going to give me an answer on why he screwed me or I was not going to mail him his $400 worth of stuff. He did not really have a good answer and after holding his feet to the fire long enough for me to feel better, I mailed him his stuff. I bet he will think twice next time!

 

[Flipz]

Big pain for nothing?

I'm definitely not trying to argue at all but getting a document notarized is FREE at most banks (as long as you have an account there), and takes no more than 10 MINUTES. It's a pretty simple procedure and I wouldnt call it a pain at all. The more important thing is that it gives you legal options if something were to go wrong. Having that legal option can't hurt. Simply put, a notarized document carries more weight than one that's not notarized. It's just added piece of mind. Atleast to me it is.

I'm not saying everyone has to do it in every circumstance. It's just what I would do when it comes to something like the OP's situation. To each his own I guess.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

FLIPZ, I did not know that about the Banks but its still just one more stop so year its a pain as its starting to take longer than a single lunch break to get it done. I think we agree on the rest. Yes it proves you signed whatever you have signed to a court of law. However if you are not going to start a lawysuit over the item, it really does not help at all because it only really holds weight in a court. If you are in court, the court is going to assume you are not sending money for free so unless you are arguing over details, the court will probably be on your side anyway. Plus the real problem is that if you are getting it out of state, don't you have to sue them in that state? If so how are you going to sue someone half a country away... I guess what I am saying is that it will help in court but most of the time you see its not worth going to court unless its a lot of money we are talking about...

Postal money orders do something nothing else does. Fraud with a postal money order is a Federal offense. The federal government will come after the person for it. This does and will happen. This is a proactive thing rather then defensive thing that will land you in court before it can help.

 

[Flipz]

FLIPZ, I did not know that about the Banks but its still just one more stop so year its a pain as its starting to take longer than a single lunch break to get it done. I think we agree on the rest. Yes it proves you signed whatever you have signed to a court of law. However if you are not going to start a lawysuit over the item, it really does not help at all because it only really holds weight in a court. If you are in court, the court is going to assume you are not sending money for free so unless you are arguing over details, the court will probably be on your side anyway. Plus the real problem is that if you are getting it out of state, don't you have to sue them in that state? If so how are you going to sue someone half a country away... I guess what I am saying is that it will help in court but most of the time you see its not worth going to court unless its a lot of money we are talking about...

Postal money orders do something nothing else does. Fraud with a postal money order is a Federal offense. The federal government will come after the person for it. This does and will happen. This is a proactive thing rather then defensive thing that will land you in court before it can help.

I definitely agree that PMO's are how someone should pay for an out of state NFA purchase. They add a level of protection which is never a bad thing and pretty much the point I'm making.

Getting a document notarized is just another layer of protection that only takes 10 minutes to put in place. Thats less time then it takes to wait in line at the Post Office for most of us. More important is that Postal inspectors and courts won't just side on your behalf because you make a complaint of fraud. You have to prove it. That's what the notarized agreement is for. Its authenticity cannot be argued. If you are ripped off, having a notarized agreement to show the inspectors or courts is proof there was an agreement. The theif can't then argue that there wasn't one. And the notarized document doesn't just apply to being used in a lawsuit. I think that's the point I'm not explaining well enough. It also applies to the Postal Inspectors and the PMO. They would consider it evidence in their investigation. And it would only help get your money back faster and with less hassle.

Oh and purchasing a regulated firearm, especially NFA items, falls under federal law. Thus making an offense a federal offense if illegal activities are committed, including fraud I believe. Don't qoute me on it because I'm not an attorney, but I'm pretty sure this is how it would work.