Safe on an upper floor?

[safecracker]

Contrary to safecrackers advice, unless your house is rickity and ready to fall down, the floor should handle the weight of the safe. If you have a house fire that is bad enough that you have to worry about the safe falling through the floor, you have bigger concerns than your gun collection. Bang mentioned the number 30 pounds per square foot. If that was all the weight your floor could handle, you would fall through. A 250 pound man takes up less than one square foot when the are standing.

Read my points again. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE WEIGHT OF THE SAFE. Not all safes are 300-500 pound thin walled boxes. I regularly sell and move safes weighing 2,000 to 5,000 pounds or more. Residential flooring is not designed to, and will not, accomodate this kind of weight, particularly in a 4-10 square foot area.

 

[trickg]

Another important thing to consider is the static load you are putting on the floor. I'm not a construction guy but if I remember correctly code is like 30lbs a square foot. Now if you have extra support under where you put it then you might be ok. But that much weight in one spot I will bet will cause cracks and sagging over time .

I have my safe on my main floor - I couldn't get it in the basement or upstairs if I wanted to due to how the stairs are configured, and I don't have a basement walk-out. That said, there are two places in the house where i have set this safe:

1.) next to an outer wall - this was good because the closer to the concrete foundation the sturdier the floor at that place.

2.) its current location, almost directly above a steel I-beam support. It's slightly offset, so it's similar to when I had it sitting next to the outer wall. Not only that, but the I-beam's upright support is very near where my safe is sitting as well.

It's probably not the "ideal" location for a 900 pound safe, but I didn't want it in my garage, so where I have it is the next best thing IMO.

 

[safecracker]

I have my safe on my main floor - I couldn't get it in the basement or upstairs if I wanted to due to how the stairs are configured, and I don't have a basement walk-out. That said, there are two places in the house where i have set this safe:

1.) next to an outer wall - this was good because the closer to the concrete foundation the sturdier the floor at that place.

2.) its current location, almost directly above a steel I-beam support. It's slightly offset, so it's similar to when I had it sitting next to the outer wall. Not only that, but the I-beam's upright support is very near where my safe is sitting as well.

It's probably not the "ideal" location for a 900 pound safe, but I didn't want it in my garage, so where I have it is the next best thing IMO.

Agreed. You work with what you have. Commercial applications are generally pretty simple.....wide doors, concrete floors, freight elevators, etc. Residential settings vary greatly and each one is different, so you have to work within the parameters of often less-than-ideal conditions.

 

[Mooseman]

Read my points again. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE WEIGHT OF THE SAFE. Not all safes are 300-500 pound thin walled boxes. I regularly sell and move safes weighing 2,000 to 5,000 pounds or more. Residential flooring is not designed to, and will not, accomodate this kind of weight, particularly in a 4-10 square foot area.

I am not a safe expert but I do know something about flooring. A floor will handle 2000 lbs. over 10 square feet easily. I can not picture a gun safe that weighs 5000 lbs. and only taking up 4 square feet. Dollying a 5000 lb. safe over some flooring surfaces may cause damage. Plywood will usually take care of that.

 

[trickg]

Agreed. You work with what you have. Commercial applications are generally pretty simple.....wide doors, concrete floors, freight elevators, etc. Residential settings vary greatly and each one is different, so you have to work within the parameters of often less-than-ideal conditions.

Yep. I actually wanted this safe in the basement (well, that's where my wife wanted it anyway) but I have stairs that go halfway down to a landing, and then do a 180 degree turn. My safe isn't small and there would have been no way to do the turn-around with the walker. Maybe if I was trying to get it upstairs due to the fact that the stairway is open to the 2nd floor ceiling and would have allowed a bit more wiggle room but there was no way to put it in the basement.

I actually considered the weight when I was thinking about locations for where I wanted it. What you said in your earlier post about, "I didnt' realize it was going to take up that much room," was what happened with my wife in the first location - to her it stuck out from the wall too far, so out came the teflon skids and me and a buddy moved it to the current location over the I-Beam.

 

[chale127]

I am not a safe expert but I do know something about flooring. A floor will handle 2000 lbs. over 10 square feet easily. I can not picture a gun safe that weighs 5000 lbs. and only taking up 4 square feet. Dollying a 5000 lb. safe over some flooring surfaces may cause damage. Plywood will usually take care of that.

i agree with 1-2k lbs
40lb/sq.ft. is a typical Residential Floor live loading, BUT this is for the entire square footage of a given floor of a house and is an average of the total square footage and all appliances, couches, TV's etc.

But point loading with 5k lbs is a whole 'nother animal

 

[safecracker]

I am not a safe expert but I do know something about flooring. A floor will handle 2000 lbs. over 10 square feet easily. I can not picture a gun safe that weighs 5000 lbs. and only taking up 4 square feet. Dollying a 5000 lb. safe over some flooring surfaces may cause damage. Plywood will usually take care of that.

I agree in general. But as I said, conditions vary greatly from one application to the next. If all floors were built and maintained identically, things would be simple. Unfortunately, they are not. Building codes vary, as does the integrity of the builder. How the floor has been maintained becomes a factor as well. This is especially true in older homes, where things like termite damage, water rot, or covered up floor damage or modifications are present, but not necessarily evident. Oftentimes, these flaws aren't found until a heavy load is on top of it. Ask me how I know.

I wasn't speaking specifically of gun safes, but rather safes in general; you are correct- there are no 5,000 pound gun safes that I am aware of.

I use 1/4" aluminum plate to protect flooring since plywood compresses under heavy weight, inhibiting maneuverability.

 

[Merlin]

I need a good safe for my guns and valuables, but I have no idea how to tell if it can be safely installed upstairs on the second floor. What questions do I need to ask about this?

You also need to figure out in what direction your floor joist are running so you know how many will be supporting the safe at the location your considering.

 

[GNLaFrance]

I would think a decent safe co. would be able to check out your floor and tell you if it was OK. Might even be able to at least point you in the direction of someone who could shore it up if needed. If I remember from some of your other posts, this sounds like a move for accessibility rather than just a random thought so basement is out. Either way, I wouldn't mind to see the same info, I am in a townhome and sleep 3 stories above my basement.

Accessibility is the main thing indeed. I can climb down and up two flights of stairs, but I can't carry anything substantial while doing it, and I have to sit down and rest a while at the top.

I am not a safe expert but I do know something about flooring. A floor will handle 2000 lbs. over 10 square feet easily.

I take it then, 200 pounds per square foot is a safe number to play with, especially when the safe will be up against a support wall? That seems reasonable. One question I'm going to ask of every safe I look at is how many lbs/sq ft it presses down with.

 

[HarCo2ANewb]

Things to think about as well, do you have any tile or marble flooring near by? Increased deflection, or bending, of the joists could cause it to crack.

 

[Hotrod Diesel]

Accessibility is the main thing indeed. I can climb down and up two flights of stairs, but I can't carry anything substantial while doing it, and I have to sit down and rest a while at the top.



I take it then, 200 pounds per square foot is a safe number to play with, especially when the safe will be up against a support wall? That seems reasonable. One question I'm going to ask of every safe I look at is how many lbs/sq ft it presses down with.

Well that would depend on how it is set. If you balance it on a 1'' square it will be more vs. Sitting flat on a 3/4" thick full sheet of plywood.

 

[George]

Unless you have sump pump issues...I would go with the basement.

You do understand that in the event of a fire that the power is cut to the house in which the sump pump will not work, so your basement will fill with water in the event of a fire.

 

[diesel-man]

You do understand that in the event of a fire that the power is cut to the house in which the sump pump will not work, so your basement will fill with water in the event of a fire.

You already stated this in post #9.


I was referring to: If the OP had regular sump pump issues...losing power...low land near a stream that floods, etc.

Now in a fire: If you have a safe that is lite enough to be upstairs...it probably has a 30 minute fire rating...or so...it might end up in the basement anyway by the time the fire dept gets the fire OUT.

Either way...you put the safe anyplace that makes the most sense to you.

 

[Merlin]

You do understand that in the event of a fire that the power is cut to the house in which the sump pump will not work, so your basement will fill with water in the event of a fire.

Some people have that sump pump setup that has a car battery that works the pump if you loose power

 

[George]

You already stated this in post #9.


I was referring to: If the OP had regular sump pump issues...losing power...low land near a stream that floods, etc.

Now in a fire: If you have a safe that is lite enough to be upstairs...it probably has a 30 minute fire rating...or so...it might end up in the basement anyway by the time the fire dept gets the fire OUT.

Either way...you put the safe anyplace that makes the most sense to you.

I stated half of it in post #9, Then you said something about a sump pump so I added to it.

Some people have that sump pump setup that has a car battery that works the pump if you loose power

Some of us do not have a sump pump at all.

 

[Merlin]

I stated half of it in post #9, Then you said something about a sump pump so I added to it.



Some of us do not have a sump pump at all.

Or you could be like me and not own the safe I wish I had

 

[paperwork351]

Perhaps a firefighter can chime in about locating a safe in a corner. A safe can drop into the basement. Also if located in the middle of the house, a collapse can pile on top, turning the safe into a blast furnace.

 

[tim410]

my safe is on second floor and have never had a problem. Weighs about 700 lbs

 

[Blalock]

I am not a safe expert but I do know something about flooring. A floor will handle 2000 lbs. over 10 square feet easily. I can not picture a gun safe that weighs 5000 lbs. and only taking up 4 square feet. Dollying a 5000 lb. safe over some flooring surfaces may cause damage. Plywood will usually take care of that.

As a firefighter I can tell you that I routinely go into houses that are on fire that I can see from the first floor right through the holes that have already burned through the second floor. I understand that I have a dangerous job but PLEASE don't make it anymore dangerous then it has to be.

 

[SuperMag]

Large safe in the basement for long guns, massive pistol collection, and infrequently-used valuables. Small safe (concealed) upstairs for jewelry and other small valuables that get frequent use.