SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[Kharn]

So how many years does it take to become vested in the retirement programs for the various large departments?

 

[br3krj]

Is there any update on HB45 and the pending vote?

 

[CrueChief]

HOUSE BILL 1422

Sponsored By: Delegates McDermott, Cluster, and Smigiel
Entitled: Law Enforcement Officers - Separation from Service - Retirement Credentials

Introduced and read first time: February 29, 2012

Synopsis:
Providing that a qualified retired law enforcement officer retains a specified rank and receives a retired law enforcement photographic identification card from a specified law enforcement agency under specified circumstances; authorizing a qualified retired law enforcement officer to wear, carry, or transport a handgun under specified circumstances; requiring each law enforcement agency in the State to adopt specified written policies relating to photographic identification cards for retired law enforcement officers; etc.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/bills/hb/hb1422f.pdf

Maybe this is the first step of eliminating carry permits altogether ala Illinios

 

[MDFF2008]

Maybe this is the first step of eliminating carry permits altogether ala Illinios

Highly unlikely; Delegate Smigiel is one of the most outspoken pro-2a delegates. I can't imagine he'd attach his name to something anti-2a.

 

[smokey]

HOUSE BILL 1422

Sponsored By: Delegates McDermott, Cluster, and Smigiel
Entitled: Law Enforcement Officers - Separation from Service - Retirement Credentials

Introduced and read first time: February 29, 2012

Synopsis:
Providing that a qualified retired law enforcement officer retains a specified rank and receives a retired law enforcement photographic identification card from a specified law enforcement agency under specified circumstances; authorizing a qualified retired law enforcement officer to wear, carry, or transport a handgun under specified circumstances; requiring each law enforcement agency in the State to adopt specified written policies relating to photographic identification cards for retired law enforcement officers; etc.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/bills/hb/hb1422f.pdf

soooo, you're saying we can get a permit quicker by becomming an leo and retiring than waiting for legg to rule on this?

 

[CrueChief]

Highly unlikely; Delegate Smigiel is one of the most outspoken pro-2a delegates. I can't imagine he'd attach his name to something anti-2a.

Well then what is the purpose of this bill? It seems that once again we are saying person "A" is better than person "B". The fact that person "A" is a retired LEO means he CAN get a permit. The least he should have to do is fill out the paperwork to get it.

 

[Dogabutila]

How is this different from leosa? I'm curious cause I dont know the details of how they work.

 

[Kharn]

Well then what is the purpose of this bill? It seems that once again we are saying person "A" is better than person "B". The fact that person "A" is a retired LEO means he CAN get a permit. The least he should have to do is fill out the paperwork to get it.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. " Retired cops are civilians, not cops, so the same process or ability must be made available to everyone else if it is allowed to the retirees. The current system passes muster under that standard because everyone is allowed to apply. Now what happens when one group doesn't even need to apply, but everyone else must?

 

[SamW]

"Retired cops are civilians, not cops, so the same process or ability must be made available to everyone else if it is allowed to the retirees."

Agree with this.

 

[300RUM]

" Retired cops are civilians, not cops,

Actually "cops" are also civilians. That is were we are having the disconnect.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Actually "cops" are also civilians. That is were we are having the disconnect.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian

Definition of CIVILIAN
1
: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2
a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force

 

[Dan-o]

Im not a civilian YAY!

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

I always figured that cops were more "sworn civilians," since they're only subject to regular civil authority and not military authority.

 

[Afield]

I always figured that cops were more "sworn civilians," since they're only subject to regular civil authority and not military authority.

That's a really good point.

At the risk of being an ogre, to what authority are derailed threads subject to?

 

[Srsanbo]

Im not a civilian YAY!

But you might still be a pleb.

 

[Al Norris]

I really hate these debates on the nature of police officers. Particularly when someone like Boondock Saint pulls up the latest greatest definition from Websters, but completely devoid of context.

Consider the definition that he did not show:

2 b: outsider

Hmmm... from whence have we heard that pejorative? A civilian is rightly an outsider to the military. Yet it has now become common usage by those police who wish to divide us.

Consider an older definition of civilian: One who is not under military authority. We get that definition because of the civilian officers of old: Magistrate; Constable; Sheriff (feel free to look up the etymology).

No matter how you slice it, Magistrates, Constables and Sheriffs were all civilian officers tasked with keeping the civil peace. Police Officers, as we know them today, are direct descendants from both Constables and Sheriffs, with a bit of magisterial authority still alive and kicking.

In no way shape or form are police officers related to the military. They are civilians tasked with enforcing civil law.

I apologize for extending the derailment of this thread.

 

[Patrick]

Furthering the derailment...

When I was in the military I had the pleasure to work alongside numerous DEA and other federal officers in pursuit of synergistic goals in overseas environments.

We called them 'civilians' and they referenced each other as civilians. The distinction occasionally mattered - there were things each side could and could not do - that's why we worked together to fill the gaps in between.

That, and they always bought the drinks. Like it should be.


As a side note, I know many LEO agencies here do not view themselves as civilians. It's in their training, their management and their (recent) culture. It worries me, as does the entire militarization of the US Law Enforcement Community. I have had the displeasure of working and living in places where the police were truly not civilian, and not one time did a good thing come from it.

 

[300RUM]

Furthering the derailment...

When I was in the military I had the pleasure to work alongside numerous DEA and other federal officers in pursuit of synergistic goals in overseas environments.

We called them 'civilians' and they referenced each other as civilians. The distinction occasionally mattered - there were things each side could and could not do - that's why we worked together to fill the gaps in between.

That, and they always bought the drinks. Like it should be.


As a side note, I know many LEO agencies here do not view themselves as civilians. It's in their training, their management and their (recent) culture. It worries me, as does the entire militarization of the US Law Enforcement Community. I have had the displeasure of working and living in places where the police were truly not civilian, and not one time did a good thing come from it.

good post

 

[jhilljr]

Judge Legg has ruled in favor or Woollard. The full opinion is available on Pacer.

03/05/2012 53 ORDER denying as moot 12 Motion by plaintiff for Summary Judgment; granting 21 Motion by plaintiff for Summary Judgment; denying 25 Motion for Summary Judgment; directing clerk to close the case. Signed by Judge Benson Everett Legg on 3/2/2012. (aos, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 03/05/2012)

 

[Boondock Saint]

Judge Legg has ruled in favor or Woollard. The full opinion is available on Pacer.

03/05/2012 53 ORDER denying as moot 12 Motion by plaintiff for Summary Judgment; granting 21 Motion by plaintiff for Summary Judgment; denying 25 Motion for Summary Judgment; directing clerk to close the case. Signed by Judge Benson Everett Legg on 3/2/2012. (aos, Deputy Clerk) (Entered: 03/05/2012)

!!

No staying order?

Appeal remains guaranteed.