Retirees get billions in federal pension bailout

[Afrikeber]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have family members that lost their pensions they worked for while at the Bethlehem Steel and then went bankrupt. Why is it some pensions get bailed and some not.

Retirees celebrate $36 billion pension bailout

President Biden announces largest award under controversial financial assistance program

on.mktw.net

 

[beetles]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have family members that lost their pensions they worked for while at the Bethlehem Steel and then went bankrupt. Why is it some pensions get bailed and some not.

Retirees celebrate $36 billion pension bailout

President Biden announces largest award under controversial financial assistance program

on.mktw.net

The management of the companies whose employees were promised pension benefits as part of their compensation package but whose employers "underfunded" those pensions should be prosecuted for fraud.

This is another government bailout, nothing less.

 

[Afrikeber]

This is a white collar crime that never gets prosecuted. Bethlehem Steel executives left with their golden parachutes no repercussions at all.

 

[Bikebreath]

Nuttin' but everyones favorite political philosophy at work; Socialism.

 

[ohen cepel]

Lots wrong with this. I think every pension plan also has to pay into the government "insurance" plan. I suspect though, that those funds are also raided routinely or spent before they ever get in the door to that insurance plan.

Then, the mismanagement of the retirement fund itself.

Agree with the post above about people need to be going to jail for these sort of things if they didn't do their job (or simply stole the $$), and by that I would include raiding it for other uses or to jack up their stock prices so that the CEO was paid more.

 

[Mightydog]

Tell me how the fvck this is even legal? Make bad “investments” and get a taxpayer funded bailout? Getting so tired of this sh*tt!

 

[Abuck]

This is a white collar crime that never gets prosecuted. Bethlehem Steel executives left with their golden parachutes no repercussions at all.

Yup, and everyone with a pension got screwed. Then taxpayers got to foot the bill.

Your Incredible Vanishing Pension | The Motley Fool

Your retirement is yours. Trust no one else.

www.fool.com

Some were even forced to repay some of their pensions.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2003-10-28-0310280380-story.html

But the rich took their piece.
Then Wilbur Ross, a billionaire corporate raider did to the steel industry what he had previously done to the textile industry. Being 45 minutes from the Bethlehem PA location, I know a lot of people that were affected.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Buying votes.

Tax n spend.

Our money into their money.

Zero accountability.

Gonna break “the bank.”

Demonomics.

 

[Inigoes]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have family members that lost their pensions they worked for while at the Bethlehem Steel and then went bankrupt. Why is it some pensions get bailed and some not.

Retirees celebrate $36 billion pension bailout

President Biden announces largest award under controversial financial assistance program

on.mktw.net

My father was part of the Bethlehem Steel debacle.

The way he explained it to me back in the day. The union wanted control of the pension plan because Bethlehem wasn't funding the pension they way they should. The union thought they could manage it better. Human nature being what it is, the union leaders started to live large.

When the time that Bethlehem shut their doors. The union said there were problems with the pension fund and then pension benefit guarantee corporation (PBGC) took over the fund. The PBGC is the FDIC for pension plans. They looked at the pot of money and divided it up. The older guys got something, the middle guys got a little, and the younger ones got nothing.

 

[StantonCree]

My father was part of the Bethlehem Steel debacle.

The way he explained it to me back in the day. The union wanted control of the pension plan because Bethlehem wasn't funding the pension they way they should. The union thought they could manage it better. Human nature being what it is, the union leaders started to live large.

When the time that Bethlehem shut their doors. The union said there were problems with the pension fund and then pension benefit guarantee corporation (PBGC) took over the fund. The PBGC is the FDIC for pension plans. They looked at the pot of money and divided it up. The older guys got something, the middle guys got a little, and the younger ones got nothing.

All i can say is for 15 years I’ve worked for an entity that 15 years ago promised me something, which is why i took the job! If In 12-13 years that promise doesn’t ring true heaven help everyone involved.

 

[John from MD]

I say it's a slap in the face to every hard working American who scrimped and saved to have a retirement.

 

[D&Ds]

What is the real difference between this and taxpayer funded sporting stadiums? They keep steal ing our money and we keep letting them.

 

[Inigoes]

All i can say is for 15 years I’ve worked for an entity that 15 years ago promised me something, which is why i took the job! If In 12-13 years that promise doesn’t ring true heaven help everyone involved.

There are no guarantees in life. When you find yourself in that situation, you got to make the best of it.

 

[Wtlhntr]

Mixed feelings on this, but I would rather see the money go to the elderly people that worked all their lives and got screwed instead of to the government handouts. My FIL was one of the Beth Steel casualties among other friends that struggled.

 

[CrueChief]

Considering we/the gov't has zero intentions of ever paying back its debts and those who lend us money have zero intentions of ever calling in the debt.......But when this thing actually comes crashing down its gonna be a real return to the dark ages.

 

[Harrys]

Biden just buying more votes.

 

[lazarus]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have family members that lost their pensions they worked for while at the Bethlehem Steel and then went bankrupt. Why is it some pensions get bailed and some not.

Retirees celebrate $36 billion pension bailout

President Biden announces largest award under controversial financial assistance program

on.mktw.net

Depends on who is at the helm. Republicans often do not bailout pension funds.

But in general it depends on why, and how big.

ERISA is the controlling law, and PBGC generally guarantees pensions for pension funds that go bankrupt. But it depends on the how and the why.

Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA)

The Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) is a federal law that sets minimum standards for most voluntarily established retirement and health plans in private industry to provide protection for individuals in these plans.

www.dol.gov

IMHO, pensions shouldn't be managed by companies. Too many examples of them being mismanaged. Sometimes just stupidity. Sometimes violating fiduciary duty. Sometimes outright embezzlement. Pensions should be managed by the government (State or Federal). Doesn't mean a company must participate and provide a pension to their employees. They can come up with a lot of the rules, who much does the company contribute, how much does the employee contribute, how long to vest, etc.

 

[Inigoes]

Depends on who is at the helm. Republicans often do not bailout pension funds.

But in general it depends on why, and how big.

ERISA is the controlling law, and PBGC generally guarantees pensions for pension funds that go bankrupt. But it depends on the how and the why.

Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA)

The Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) is a federal law that sets minimum standards for most voluntarily established retirement and health plans in private industry to provide protection for individuals in these plans.

www.dol.gov

IMHO, pensions shouldn't be managed by companies. Too many examples of them being mismanaged. Sometimes just stupidity. Sometimes violating fiduciary duty. Sometimes outright embezzlement. Pensions should be managed by the government (State or Federal). Doesn't mean a company must participate and provide a pension to their employees. They can come up with a lot of the rules, who much does the company contribute, how much does the employee contribute, how long to vest, etc.

Pensions are a relic of the past.

There are a couple left, but most have switched over to 401k for that very reason.

 

[lazarus]

There are no guarantees in life. When you find yourself in that situation, you got to make the best of it.

Also why corporations and the corporate officers should be required to be responsible.

Make a promise and break a promise, the corporate officers should go to prison and/or be wholly financially responsible.

Otherwise promises are meaningless.

Same thing with companies and clean-ups. They should have to front end clean-up of a mine, development site, etc. So once the mine or development site runs dry, they can't just claim bankruptcy after the corporate officers and investors made their money and the project is no longer profitable. There are thousands and thousands of mines across the West that have pollution/toxic issues because of exactly that. So either companies need to front end the costs into escrow to pay for anticipated clean-up costs, or the corporate officers need to be personally responsible if the company cannot meet its obligations.

Your argument is an argument for no employee protections of any kind.

 

[lazarus]

Pensions are a relic of the past.

There are a couple left, but most have switched over to 401k for that very reason.

According to DOL, there are over 46,000 defined benefit plans still in existence. Of note, only about 6000 of those are public pension plans, the remainder are private pension plans. This is versus 686,000 defined contribution plans (401k, 403b, etc.). In 1975 it was 100k defined benefit and 200k defined contribution.

A last note, most of the defined benefit pension plans are among larger employers, so that impacts a disproportionate amount of the US workforce. IIRC around 20% of the US private sector are eligible for a defined benefit retirement plan.

If you look over the last 20 years, the number of defined benefit plans has remained mostly static They aren't super common, but they are not rare.