Retired police officer kills fellow movie-goer over texting dispute

[PJDiesel]

One of the news broadcasts this week said that there are infa red security video of the incident that will be brought up at trial.

Huh.

That could/would be very telling of the actual timeline and events.

 

[Straightshooter]

I believe it was CH 13 on the evening that the hearing was held. Makes me wonder why it hasn't leaked if it does exist.

 

[Straightshooter]

National news just showed the video. The old guy is faucked! The deceased threw what was clearly a cup of popcorn and did not advance. As soon as the popcorn hit the old guy he pulled his gun and fired.

 

[PJDiesel]

Had a feeling this was gonna happen......

 

[Kman]

I think this old wannabe harda$$ should be toast.

Big balls kills a man over texting and popcorn (testimony and video) and cusses his wife out and now cries like a little girl in proceedings.

 

[PJDiesel]

Not good for anyone, especially location wise.

 

[Corporal Doug]

Here is where I pulled the numbers from.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/32529893/Montgomery-County-MD-Employee-Salaries-and-Overtime-Earnings-2009

These are 2009 numbers including overtime.

I'll help you find the answers too.

Go to page 4. Police Captain, a bunch of them, $127,000.

Go to page 7. Police Lietenant, a bunch of them, $111,000.

Go to page 15. Police Sergeant, a bunch of them, $98,000.

If your supervisors are ready to retire and they are only make $75,000 a year, they obviously did not climb too far up the supervisory ladder now did they. Who knows, maybe MOCO cut salaries over the past 4 years, and did so drastically, but I doubt it. One of my friends in the fire department made $200k+ as an EMT and it made the Washington Post.

Now, tell me again how what I said is 100% incorrect. There is one thing I learned as a kid, do not talk about something you know nothing about because you look like a jackass. So, I try to make sure I have data/documentation or some serious knowledge about what I say so I don't look like a moron.

Montgomery county commissioned officer salaries? Hardly a reasonable choice that reflects a majority of departments. One of the wealthiest counties with the highest paid department. It was already replied to about your post about this anyway so I won't waste much typing. But I have to ask, what is the purpose of your last paragraph? Because you are frustrated so you had to resort to some school yard retort and name calling? Really? I thought you were more mature than that.

Me saying "you are 100% incorrect" was mere exaggeration, if you didn't figure that out. You say I know nothing about what I was talking about, which is untrue too because this is the job I do. Don't take everything that someone says too literally, I'm typing this on a cell phone so my sentences are much shorter than what they should be to make a good argument.

As you can see, minus the VERY few exceptions, no one makes 6 figures as a real police officer. Find me a REAL police officer that makes that much doing patrol work, not the brass who haven't been on the road in 20 years.


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[Gryphon]

National news just showed the video. The old guy is faucked! The deceased threw what was clearly a cup of popcorn and did not advance. As soon as the popcorn hit the old guy he pulled his gun and fired.

Saw it too. The retiree is probably going away going away for a while - and not to assisted living. Even if he honestly felt the "victim" was an aggressor, I don't see how he will ever convince the jury that he didn't over-react for the circumstances given the video. Obviously I don't think the retired officer intended to kill the guy, and I have know reason to believe he didn't subjectively fear an attack (but objectively is a whole different story), so unlike Travon/Zimmerman this may really put SYG to the test.

Supplement: I saw another video which seems to show the texter/dead guy throwing his phone (or something else), as well as the popcorn at the retired officer - perhaps aggravating and inviting a response. Under Florida law that may be an unwanted touching or "assault." I still don't see how the shooter can establish reasonable force, but maybe he won't have to under Florida law? It happened so fast he may have really felt threatened, but I still think he is going down. It seems to have been a situation where two people where just too wrapped up in themselves, but in a public place, and they both let the petty annoyance get out of control resulting in an assault and a deadly response. I am not condoning the shooting, but I bet less people will be throwing cell phones and popcorn, bottles, glasses, or whatever at another person in the future. I feel bad for all involved - the dead guy, his wife and child, and the shooter.

 

[fidelity]

Video is here ...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...his-morning-in-movie-theater-shooting/2164575

as is more testimony about the encounter.

 

[Tito]

You really have to be nuts or severe anger management issues to kill someone over texting and fluffy popcorn.

 

[Corporal Doug]

You really have to be nuts or severe anger management issues to kill someone over texting and fluffy popcorn.

Really can't argue with that logic.







....unless you are a liberal and talking about gun control.


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[Indiana Jones]

The hothead texter assaulted the old man. Good shoot. Hothead shouldn't have assaulted the old man. I love the choice snippets the news showed.


However when I've had similar issues in the movie....I moved. I don't talk to strangers. I simply move seats. This could have been avoided by both parties. But in a dark theater that old man had no idea what was happening after hothead assaulted him. What was next? A fist? A knife? He had no way to tell. Being retired for 20 years from the Police means dick. If he was a CPA, or a lawyer...doesnt matter. Old man thought he had some young hothead gunning for him.

The deceased brought hair gel and bravado to a gun fight. Old man made some VERY ill thought out statements instead of lawyering up.

 

[fabsroman]

Montgomery county commissioned officer salaries? Hardly a reasonable choice that reflects a majority of departments. One of the wealthiest counties with the highest paid department. It was already replied to about your post about this anyway so I won't waste much typing. But I have to ask, what is the purpose of your last paragraph? Because you are frustrated so you had to resort to some school yard retort and name calling? Really? I thought you were more mature than that.

Me saying "you are 100% incorrect" was mere exaggeration, if you didn't figure that out. You say I know nothing about what I was talking about, which is untrue too because this is the job I do. Don't take everything that someone says too literally, I'm typing this on a cell phone so my sentences are much shorter than what they should be to make a good argument.

As you can see, minus the VERY few exceptions, no one makes 6 figures as a real police officer. Find me a REAL police officer that makes that much doing patrol work, not the brass who haven't been on the road in 20 years.


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Glad you weren't going to waste much time typing a response.

About three (3) weeks ago, you asked me to show you where I got those figures from, and I showed you. Now, tell me again that I am 100% incorrect. I might be incorrect for a lot of agencies in the country, but I am not 100% incorrect because Montgomery County law enforcement gets paid a damn good wage. I know that at least one patrol officer that gets a lot of DUI's is close to, if not above 6 figures, but I cannot remember his name off the top of my head.

I've done tax returns for a couple PG officers and they aren't too shy of 6 figures either.

 

[fabsroman]

The hothead texter assaulted the old man. Good shoot. Hothead shouldn't have assaulted the old man. I love the choice snippets the news showed.


However when I've had similar issues in the movie....I moved. I don't talk to strangers. I simply move seats. This could have been avoided by both parties. But in a dark theater that old man had no idea what was happening after hothead assaulted him. What was next? A fist? A knife? He had no way to tell. Being retired for 20 years from the Police means dick. If he was a CPA, or a lawyer...doesnt matter. Old man thought he had some young hothead gunning for him.

The deceased brought hair gel and bravado to a gun fight. Old man made some VERY ill thought out statements instead of lawyering up.

Let's see. The old man said "What have I done."

His wife said "That was no reason to shoot somebody."

And that was a clean shoot? With your logic, you had better lawyer up if you have a CCW and well before you get a CCW. That kind of logic will require a lawyer for sure. Might even require a lawyer should you just own a gun. I can see you shooting the mailman through the door because you heard a noise and saw a package, potentially a bomb, come through the mail slot while the lights were off in the house.

Last I checked, simple assault with popcorn does not warrant the use of deadly force in Maryland. Heck, the elements of assault are merely making somebody afraid you might do them bodily harm, not actually doing them bodily harm. So, in your world of logic, would it be alright to shoot somebody if they verbally threaten you? Actually, please don't answer because it would just be additional fuel for the antis in this state.

 

[clandestine]

I think the old guy will beat the charges. This is Florida, not a commie state where you have to run away.

The young hothead made it physical and the old guy responded out of fear from what I see in the video.

I don't think a FL jury with FL Self Defense Laws is going to convict. Perhaps im wrong, we shall see,

 

[fabsroman]

Yep, he was so scared after the popcorn was thrown at him that he drew and leaned forward out of his seat, thereby putting himself closer to the "aggressor", to fire. Yep, seems like he was cowering like a little baby.

If I was on the jury, I would put way more weight on what he uttered in excitement right after the fact versus the statement he gave to officers long after the fact. He is a retired officer himself and I am pretty sure he knows exactly what the elements of a legitimate shooting consist of. With enough time, he would know exactly what to say to cover his rear.

The saddest part about all of this is that there were about 8 empty rows behind this entire mess and the theater wasn't the least bit crowded. Testosterone at its best leaves one dead and the other most likely headed to prison.

 

[Ab_Normal]

The above two posters bring up good points.

However I think it is going to be a difficult to convince a jury that the shooter acted in self defense against texting and/or popcorn throwing. I realize he did not have to but he could have moved somewhere else since the theater wasn't crowded if he was that distraught over the other person's activities.

My guess is the shooter was still in 'police officer' mode and blurred the line between any duty to act vs a duty to not act since he was no longer a police officer.

We shall see.

 

[Kman]

You really have to be nuts or severe anger management issues to kill someone over texting and fluffy popcorn.

True, but if it would have been pointy nachos with hot cheese, that's a different story.

 

[Brooklyn]

Yep, he was so scared after the popcorn was thrown at him that he drew and leaned forward out of his seat, thereby putting himself closer to the "aggressor", to fire. Yep, seems like he was cowering like a little baby.

If I was on the jury, I would put way more weight on what he uttered in excitement right after the fact versus the statement he gave to officers long after the fact. He is a retired officer himself and I am pretty sure he knows exactly what the elements of a legitimate shooting consist of. With enough time, he would know exactly what to say to cover his rear.

The saddest part about all of this is that there were about 8 empty rows behind this entire mess and the theater wasn't the least bit crowded. Testosterone at its best leaves one dead and the other most likely headed to prison.

Not so fast.. Police training. Meanwhile this one does put Stand your ground in the cross-hairs. hes has some 'slaning to do..

 

[PJDiesel]

It's a little concerning that we are some how debating if this was a good shoot or not. They old man had ample opportunity to remove himself from the "threat". Drawing a firearm over textimg and popcorn isn't a great argument for the valors of SYG.

This isn't about the vast gray area between DTR and SYG, its about what should be common sense while armed in public. Was the original aggressor wrong, yes. Is gunshots a rational response to popcorn being thrown? I'm gonna say no.

My hunch says he's going away.