Replacement Pistol - Direct Shipment

[gadgetware]

I purchased a pistol two weeks ago and now it is having some issues. I contacted the manufacture and they agreed to swap it out for a new one but there is some confusion on the shipment back to me. Based on the new laws:

1. Can they ship it back to me directly or does it have to go through an FFL?

2. If we use an FFL, will I have to adhere to the new rules to accept the gun (training course, finger prints, etc.)? I called my FFL and he was not sure.

3. They asked for the whole weapon and mags (17 round). Will they be allowed to ship me back the 17-round mags or will they have to ship me back 10-round mags. If so, I'm going to keep the mags when I send it back.


I tried to look in the new laws but couldn't find anything relating to repair or replacement work, like there is in the federal code, which would indicate that they are allowed to send it back to me directly:

§ 478.147
Return of firearm.
A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type. See § 478.124(a) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return. A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm curio or relic to a licensed collector for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed collector may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm curio or relic.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Garet Jax]

I purchased a pistol two weeks ago and now it is having some issues. I contacted the manufacture and they agreed to swap it out for a new one but there is some confusion on the shipment back to me. Based on the new laws:

1. Can they ship it back to me directly or does it have to go through an FFL?

2. If we use an FFL, will I have to adhere to the new rules to accept the gun (training course, finger prints, etc.)? I called my FFL and he was not sure.

3. They asked for the whole weapon and mags (17 round). Will they be allowed to ship me back the 17-round mags or will they have to ship me back 10-round mags. If so, I'm going to keep the mags when I send it back.


I tried to look in the new laws but couldn't find anything relating to repair or replacement work, like there is in the federal code, which would indicate that they are allowed to send it back to me directly:

§ 478.147
Return of firearm.
A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type. See § 478.124(a) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return. A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm curio or relic to a licensed collector for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed collector may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm curio or relic.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

IANAL, but this is your freedom and your rights we are talking about if you get it wrong. It seems to me that talking to an attorney is the right way to go here to protect yourself.

With that said - my opinion is that you can ship the firearm back to the manufacturer no problem. They can fix it and send it back to you no problem. However, shipping you one with a different serial number is a problem. You shipping them mags over 10 rounds is a problem and them shipping you mags over 10 rounds is a problem.

 

[Boom Boom]

If I were you ...
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=134093

 

[JailHouseLiar]

I had this happen once with a defective lower. It was perfectly legal to ship the replacement to you as far as I know. That is what my manufacturer did anyway.

I then sent a copy of the correspondence along with the new serial number to MSP and stapled copies of everything to the original paperwork for my records.

Also did it with a can, a 1911 and a GSG-1911/22, but the serial numbers remained the same.

Personally I don't see a problem except the serial number. Since registration isn't required, even that isn't certain. If you wanna just get the replacement, I'm sure you're fine. If you wanna send MSP notice of what happened and why the serial number is different, I'd say you have done everything possible to comply with the law as I understand it.

Even NOT sending the new serial number to MSP may be OK - again, registration is NOT the law. I just did it to err on the side of caution.

I'm not a lawyer or anything, just relating my own personal experience with the same or similar situations.

 

[gadgetware]

Thanks for the quick responses. My preference is to direct ship back to me and then send in an update to the MSP with my original paperwork to document the SN change. I'll try calling the MSP tomorrow for guidance but the last time a called the MSP licensing office I was told that "all the information I needed was on the website"

Hopefully the manufacturer will agree with those terms.

 

[Robert1955]

They can ship directly back to you. An adult will be required to sign for the package when it arrives at your house. If the gun has a new serial number but is the same make/model you don't need to do anything. The 17 round mags might be the biggest issue but as you shipped it out for repair and they are sending it back to you it MIGHT be OK after all the mags belong to you already and you had possession of them in state prior to 10/1. That is the part I would really look into but who would know whats in the box? It will not be marked on the outside......

 

[govwontletmebuycoolguns]

How much does an attorney consultation cost nowadays for something like this?

Seriously.......with no clear guidance on the law, I can see the price of legal advice quickly exceeding the price of the firearm.....

And while I would pay it to protect my rights, it just ain't right.

My 2 cents.

 

[gadgetware]

I talked with the manufacturer today and they transferred me to their legal department who in turn called the MSP attorney's office for advice. What I heard back is that there are provisions in the new law for repair and replacement weapons to be returned to the customer, and for repair they can return the hi-cap mags as well.

Since this is going to be a replacement instead of a return, the mfg. wants to play it safe and instructed me to keep the hi-cap mags and they will ship the new pistol without the mags. They also said that they need to ship it to an FFL, but I shouldn't have to go through the new registration process to get the new weapon back.

 

[JettaRed]

...They also said that they need to ship it to an FFL, but I shouldn't have to go through the new registration process to get the new weapon back.

I've heard that too (from Walther), but that makes no sense. If new registration isn't required, what's the FFL supposed to do? Another NICS check?

 

[Hicap]

Can the manufacturer fix the problem and use the existing frame/ receiver?

 

[gadgetware]

Unfortunately the problem is with the barrel which has a serial number on it. They could probably repair it but since it's a new unfired gun they offered to replace it.

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll post additional updates if something changes from what I've been told.

 

[swinokur]

I'd contact Rusty for advice. A shipment from a manufacturer with a new serial number might not be legal without an HQL. The law says "receive". That may be a problem. I wouldn't take a verbal opinion from anyone at MSP as the official policy.

Be careful here.

 

[gadgetware]

The manufacturer discussed this replacement with the Deputy Attorney General for the MSP, although most of the discussion revolved around the hicap mags. They would not send me the written correspondence but my understanding from what they passed along was that it should be OK. They referenced a provision for repair/replacement but I couldn't find it in the bill that I found on line. My FFL was looking into it as well. I'll wait to see what he comes up with before I rush to fill out the HQL paperwork.