Reloading questions

[venomcannon13]

I have been saving my brass for quite some time, and now have a bunch of deprimed and tumble cleaned brass in .38 and .357, along with a little 30-30 and .308. I am currently depriming and cleaning my .223 and 5.56 cases. With all this brass on hand I am thinking of starting reloading as a hobby this winter, and have a couple questions in mind.

1) About how many times can you expect to be able to safely reload a given piece of brass? As you reload and reshoot them, do you need to keep seperate inventories of once used, twice used, etc. casings?
2) In the forums, Dillon seems to be the most popular. I have access to Lee Precision equipment at a cost savings. Go with it?
3) I have my .223 and my 5.56 casings all mixed together. Can they be reloaded as one batch, or do I need to treat them as separate entities?

Thanks for any help.

 

[LGood48]

We'll start w/ question 2...Yes, the forum seems extremely weighted towards Dillon. I, personally, have used nothing but Lee products since the mid 80's and never had a problem. So, in my opinion, save the small fortune and go with the Lee! Money saved for more toys and components!
1. Both Lee and Lyman stress inspecting each casing after firing to ensure it's safe to reload as well as keeping track as to how many times you've reloaded. Case life will depend on whether it's a hot hunting/defense load or a very mild, low pressure plinking round. If you don't have either of these books I'd suggest getting both as there is a wealth of information in them. I reload only handgun and I've managed to get 10 - 15 uses out of some cases before I find evidence of weakening or throat splits.
3. Sorry, can't really help you here, as I don't do rifle! I do, however, separate my handgun brass by manufacturer. Again, both Lee and Lyman recommend sorting brass by make/type/lot #/etc.

 

[kalister1]

How many loads you get out of each piece of brass will vary. Bottleneck cases will stretch when resized. Cases will need to be trimmed to length, how often depends on how far you size, how hot the load, chamber size and maybe even the position of the moon? Most people will only NECK size, rather than Full Length Size when loading for Bolt action rifles. When loading for Self Loaders most will Full Length Size.
I keep brass for my bolt Guns in lots of Once fired after trim, twice fired.....
After you get a pet load, you can see how often you need to trim to length.
As the case stretches, the brass came from somewhere and the case will eventually break if you keep re-loading it.
Whether or not you sort your brass will depend on how much accuracy you require out of your rifle. Each brand of case and each lot within that brand will have a different case capacity. How much that matters to you depends on how much accuracy you require.

 

[Pinecone]

1) For pistol rounds, the answer is a LOT of reloads. I don't separate and don't count. I just keep on loading. Every so often I get a split neck and I toss that piece of brass. For bottle neck rifle, it depends on the rifle (M1A 4 max safe loadings), the load (hotter loads stress the brass more), the caliber (certain calibers are easier on brass), whether or not you anneal the cases (annealing can stretch the case life by a large amount). With bottle neck rifle brass, the one thing you can check is for a thin spot in front of the head. Using a paper clip (straight, make a point, bend about 1/4" of the point 90 degrees), drag is up the inside of the case, and if you feel a place where it sticks or there seems to be a groove, toss the case.

2) Dillon is great if you want to load a LOT of ammunition. If you shoot a few hundred a week at most, Lee is fine. But so are Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, etc.

3) For rifle brass, you are better to sort by lot. Manufacturer and for mil brass, year.

 

[Traveler]

For me, saving money on reloading equipment is like saving money on a rifle. I can go cheap, but I will spend way more over the life of the gear on the supplies. I save myself grief by buying quality gear. Going up to at least RCBS or Dillon gets you a lifetime warranty. You could get a used Dillon from a yard sale (if you were lucky) and Dillon would get it running for you free of charge. Don't try that with the cheaper brands.

If you plan on annealing your rifle brass, you will want to keep track of the number of uses, and anneal around four uses. Otherwise, continue the practice of inspecting the brass before reloading and chuck the junk (cracks, splits, creases). Mild dents are okay. If you use 5.56 brass, be aware some may have crimped primer pockets, that will need to be swaged before repriming. If you are using a semi-auto .223 / 5.56, you will need to full length size, and taper crimp your brass.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Recommend that you invest in "The ABC's of Reloading" if you haven't done so already. It is a good general read on the reloading topic. You'll find a wealth of information there, including some guidance with some of your questions. You'll also need a good reloading manual, or better yet several. These tend to discuss the topic generally, as well as providing specific cartridge information as well as load "recipes" that you'll want to follow.

The case inspection process is one of the topics covered. You'll want to very carefully inspect your cases and learn to identify problems that would disqualify the re-use of your brass. Pinecone above for example mentions a time honored method of checking for a serious case flaw that's not always immediately obvious. It's called an incipient head separation. You'll want to know what that is, what it looks like, and how and where and why it occurs. You do NOT want to load cases that are in this condition. You'll want to see photographs of what usable and unusable cases look like. Your books will help you here, and they'll assist with more aspects of the hobby than I can possibly mention. Make ABC's and a good reloading manual or two your very first investments. Hornady, Speer, Lyman, Berger, Lee and Sierra are all good manuals. There are others. With good and tested industry information at hand, you'll be well on your way to a very rewarding hobby. Good luck!

 

[trickg]

My thoughts mirror most of what has already been posted. Currently all of my gear is Lee, and although it is less expensive that its counterparts from other brands, I have no reason to believe that my reloads are any lesser in quality than anyone else's.

Regarding separating brass, I don't really do it, but I do keep my eye out of split necks and other signs of wear, which is one advantage of reloading single-stage - you get to handle each piece of brass A LOT before it's a completed round. With handgun rounds, if you have a side split in a case and you miss it when you are sorting, you'll feel it when you size the case. With that in mind, when it comes to my brass, I have a rule I use when reloading - when in doubt throw it out. It's just not worth the risk to use a piece of brass that might not be up to snuff. Get rid of it and scrounge more then next time you are at the range - that's what I do. You'll constantly rotate a bunch of once-fired brass into your stock that way.

As a side note, pretty much everything I reload falls into the practice/plinking round category - to me there's no sense in loading heavy when all I'm doing is punching holes in paper. Having said that, if I ever do start loading heavier, I'll definitely sort my brass and use newer, less worn brass for the heavier loading. I'll also start to sort and categorize my brass if I ever start doing any competition (IDPA, etc) shooting.

Regarding rifle, I haven't reloaded any rifle brass yet, so I'm pretty much useless on that topic, and others will have much better information than I have.

 

[jimbobborg]

I've managed to break a Lee press. This was after a few thousand rounds. If you get a press and are reloading anything bigger than .223 you need to get an O style press, don't get a C style press.

 

[mike_in_md]

Simple reloading trick that I use for detecting bad pistol brass is to scoop up a handful and shake it in my hands, and if you hear a bell sound, you have a cracked case. I reload pistol brass until it cracks.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

One question I would like to present is, How much do you intend to reload ? If you plan to reload large quantities then something like a Dillion would be in order. If you plan to reload a little at a time then a Lee would be a good suggestion. I reload, often, in small batches. I'm not plugging out 1000's of rounds a month like most guys who target shoot do. For, them the Dillion is the only option. I top off boxes of pistol, rifle, and shotshells that I occasionally shoot at paper. I have a single stage Lee challenger press that was donated to me by a very fine member here when I got back in to reloading. That single stage Lee does all I need.

Now, if you're going to do a lot of reloading, you can always go to a Lee Progressive, HOWEVER, I will agree with anyone that a Dillion is probably better quality than the Lee, but, it mostly depends on what you plan to reload and how often. You also have to account for the cost of Die sets and accessories. My Lee accessories are absolutely fine for me and what I need to do, but, I'm not a reloading mass-producer like most of the guys here. I'm the guy who reloads 100 or maybe 200 rounds and shoots at paper about every 3-6 months. Everything else is hunting specific and that's year round by any means.

A Dillion or any progressive type press would be like buying a Cadillac to drive a mile to the store once a month for me.

 

[alucard0822]

Just about everyone lusts after Dillon, but loads on a Lee, I run a pro1000 for plinker 9/38/40/45, classic cast for some rifle and higher performance handgun ammo, and a RCBS rock chucker single stage for sizing rifles, and small batches or working up loads. I will load handgun cases till they crack, they sound like a bell when they drop onto the loading slide of the progressive, and resize without much resistance, although I catch most after cleaning in the tumbler. I spend a bit more time with rifle cases, and for 7.62nato and 30-06 I separate commercial from mil brass, the military brass is thicker, so it needs a load worked up separately, and usually a couple grains less powder. In 5.56 and .223 there isn't much difference, and as opposed to the 30 cal that run at a LOWER pressure than their mil-spec versions, 5.56 can take HIGHER pressure than .223, so it isn't as big of a deal mixing them up. It is always a good idea to chrono loads, you can infer pressure from velocity, so if a load shows max saami pressure at say 50gr and 2750FPS, and you are at 48gr and 2800fps, you are already at or above max even though you may have "2 grains to go", either from a different bullet design, thicker case or variables in powder.

As you fire the cases they stretch longer to fill the chamber, resizing doesn't crush them shorter, it merely crushes them inward, and pushes the shoulder down deeper, the excess brass flows out the longer neck that needs to be trimmed. The cases get thinner over time, and work harden, usually with the neck cracking before the case gets dangerously thin, but not always, so follow the primary rule of reloading, when in doubt, throw it out, if the case had has a bright ring around it, a bulge, crease, crack or the primer pocket is loose. I don't really sort my brass by loadings, I used to, and with some rifle brass cracking on load 2, and others looking fine at load 8, I figured it was better to check all of it after cleaning and resizing, feeling for anything different when sizing, and visually checking it for cracks is the best method I have found so far.

 

[trickg]

I've managed to break a Lee press. This was after a few thousand rounds. If you get a press and are reloading anything bigger than .223 you need to get an O style press, don't get a C style press.

But I bet you got your money's worth out of it.

My press is the humble Lee Challenger press, which is a cast aluminum "O" style press - not the toughest press out there, but not a terrible press by any means. If I wanted to upgrade my single stage press I'd get one of 3 presses:

$154 - RCBS Rock Chucker
$139 - Hornady Lock n Load single stage
$103 - Lee Classic Cast with the Quick Change bushings

The Lee is obviously the most economical of the bunch, and I doubt if any of them would ever break, but I have heard stories about Rock Chuckers still going strong after decades - when you spread $50 out over 10+ years, it doesn't seem like a lot of extra money.

If I was going to go progressive, I'd probably go with a Dillon press.

 

[jimbobborg]

But I bet you got your money's worth out of it.

My press is the humble Lee Challenger press, which is a cast aluminum "O" style press - not the toughest press out there, but not a terrible press by any means. If I wanted to upgrade my single stage press I'd get one of 3 presses:

$154 - RCBS Rock Chucker
$139 - Hornady Lock n Load single stage
$103 - Lee Classic Cast with the Quick Change bushings

The Lee is obviously the most economical of the bunch, and I doubt if any of them would ever break, but I have heard stories about Rock Chuckers still going strong after decades - when you spread $50 out over 10+ years, it doesn't seem like a lot of extra money.

If I was going to go progressive, I'd probably go with a Dillon press.

It broke at a really bad time, so while I got my money's worth out of it, it failed me right before Contagion 2011. I have a Lee turret press and a big Lyman press I got when the Lee broke. I thought about getting multiples of that Lee press, one for bullet seating and one for the factory crimping die for my longer rifle cases.

 

[Magnumite]

I would definitely separate 5.56 from .223 brass. As mentioned earlier. Sound advice was given about case inspection and discard indicators.

I have 44 Magnum cases I bought in 1980 and must have over 30 loadings on them. When a neck splits, it gets discarded. I do use different head stamps to identify loads in some calibers. It is convenient, avoids mix-ups and reinforces case/accuracy consistancy, especially in higher pressure rounds.

I have a single stage press which I use for other than main roading steps. I typically do even precision reloading on my Dillon. It is a modified sequence, pulling the case off the press after the handle is cycled up, then down. It is trimmed, deburred, primer pocket cleaned and swaged if needed. If one neck turns for rifle it can be done then. Then the case is put back on the press and advanced to the next stage.

 

[Biggfoot44]

To slightly amplify on one of 'shoot's points , it is also a question of will you be loading thousands of the same loading ( not cal , but exact recipe ) , or do you like to experement with different powders , charge wts , bullets , etc ?

LEE equipment will be fine for single stage and turret , short of going full on Benchrest style anal retentive. If you decide to go progressive , then a higher $ press will noy require constant wiggling , jiggling , and readjusting to function.

How many loading as case is good for *depends* , on multiple factors.

I have large quantities of "range brass" that I use together. Should I have genuine once fired brass ( meaning that I personally fired/ observed them being fired as virgin factory loads ) , I will keep them together on purpose , for use in * certain * loads.

And yes , read and reread thick books about reloading.

 

[venomcannon13]

Lots of good advice and info. Thanks all.

 

[Pinecone]

Another point on a single stage press.

Even with a Dillon, you will have use for a good single stage press.

I have a Dillon 650 with case feeder. GREAT for loading large amount of ammunition.

A pain to do batches of 5 rounds for load development. A pain to do a few rounds for some special purpose. It is also good for pulling bullets with a collet puller. Body die sizing oversized rounds. Lots of uses.

Also, I load my precision rifle ammunition on my single stage press.

So I recommend getting a good O style single stage press to start and see what YOU need later. You will always have a need for that single stage press.

 

[Major03]

Welcome to your new obsession! Reloading is a lot of fun, and if you shoot a lot can save you a little money. In reality, it probably won't, you'll just spend more money on equipment with this new hobby over time...but it's a convenient excuse and really cool to shoot your own hand loads and start seeing your groups shrink.

As others have stated above, answering your questions is a little difficult because it depends on a lot of variables. What purpose are your loads for, leading to how hot are you going to make them? Do you want ultimate precision and are willing to spend countless hours chasing it...or do you want cheaper bulk plinking ammo...and on and on...

It seems like reloaders all have their own slightly different process and things they like to emphasize, so take my comments with a grain of salt..but here's my thoughts for a new reloader.

FWIW, As with most things that are precision related, the more attention to detail you give to the process the more consistent things will be, and therefore should be more accurate.

Personally, I've found that there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to reloading. I do some things with lots of attention to detail, and others not so much as I've found it's made no difference in accuracy for me. Some things you just need to do for safety's sake.

Also, I don't reload pistol...so my experience is all related to rifle reloads.

Since you're new, here's some things for safety's sake to keep in mind when working up your loads:

- buy yourself a manual or two, and study up. It's a pretty simple process, so don't be intimidated...but respect the fact that you could blow up your firearm and hurt yourself and others.
- make sure you trim your brass (or at least check it for length)
- don't just follow someone's recipe you found on the internet, use a reputable manual or manufacturer's recommendation and start low and work your way up
- at a minimum visually inspect your brass for signs of high pressure after you fire it (whole topics on this - google it and study up)
- If you like a beer or two (like me), limit your beer drinking to case prep time only...keep it in the fridge when you start powdering your cases.

Things I do / have found to have payoff accuracy wise:
- Sort brass at least by make and consider by # of times fired. The first is important since you indicate you have mixed brass (5.56 surplus and .223 commercial, maybe 7.62 / .308 as well?). Military surplus brass is typically thicker and therefore generates higher pressures for the same given load. I typically load - .5 to 1 grain of powder for military surplus brass vs. commercial. Again, start low and work your way up and you'll have no problems.
- Deburr the priming hole. One time process, and I think it does help to increase consistency slightly
- Uniform the primer pockert, same as above...although admittedly probably less pay off than deburring the hole
- Anneal the brass. Somewhat advanced reloading (not really, but most reloaders don't do this). I find it creates a more consistent neck tension and extends case life. I have some not so hot .308 loads that have cases on +15 firings with no signs of case failure.
- I trickle up to the charge weight. Takes time, but powder charge is one of the biggest variables that is also really easy to control for with a decent scale. Note: rifle ammo only...pistol I wouldn't bother

Things I've found to be a waist of time YMMV: Or read, would have so minimal an impact for me that the juice ain't worth the sqeeze since I don't compete in benchrest where fractions of fractions of fractions of an inch in group size matter.
- Sorting brass and/or bullets by weight (measuring case volume in water and sorting by that and weighing other things like primers falls into this category as well)
- Cleaning my brass to a high luster. People spend lots of money and time making their brass so shiny it blinds other shooters on the line. Aesthetics only, it has zero impact on how well it shoots...and if you use an ammonia based cleaner to help it shine it can actually weaken your brass and decrease case life. Just needs to be clean enough to not damage the dies and your chamber. I use a regular tumbler and rice for media. Works well enough.


Thoughts on equipment:
- I've used Lee for a long time...and my reloads are .5 MOA or better. I think you can spend a lot more money and not get much more in terms of better equipment (presses anyway). Spending time on your process and good case prep has more impact than the color of your press.
- I'd invest in a Dillon if I shot more and needed to crank out volume. For me, I like to chase "reasonable" precision and go single stage anyway. I use a Lee Classic Turret Press, but as a single stage piece of gear. I like having my dies all set up in the turret and not having to mess with them.
- Dies are another story...although Lee dies can produce great ammo. I still use my full length Lee dies with good success (general purpose ammo - good for any gun - usually .5 MOA to .75 MOA depending on the rifle). My reloads specific to a given precision rifle use a Redding body die to bump back the shoulder and the Lee collet dies. Under .5 MOA.
- Things that might be worth investing in
- Trickler - make doesn't matter so much
- Cheap press set up on the side as a universal deprimer (I like to have my brass deprimed before I tumble it.
- A professional grade digital scale
- Something to speed up case prep - Like Hornady's case prep center or a bench drill press
- Annealing machine (although I still use a metronome and a blowtorch)

Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

[IndispensableDestiny]

I thought about getting multiples of that Lee press, one for bullet seating and one for the factory crimping die for my longer rifle cases.

I run two Rockchuckers. Most often for pistol I'll have the expander in one press and the seater in the other.

 

[jimbobborg]

I run two Rockchuckers. Most often for pistol I'll have the expander in one press and the seater in the other.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-reloader-single-stage-press is the one I broke. It should work fine as a seater and crimper press, but I'm not using one again for sizing. They're cheaper than getting a Rockchucker.