Reloading 38 SPL +P loads into 357 mag cases

[Muleskinner]

Any down side to this?
Back story. I had never owned a centerfire revolver until a couple weeks ago. I bought 2. A Colt King Cobra with a 2 inch barrel in 357 mag and a S&W 340 also in 357 mag. I have been advised that shooting full powered 357 rounds in the 340 can be very uncomfortable because fully loaded the gun only weighs about 16 ounces. So my plan originally was to carry the 340 as a back up EDC with +p 38 spl loads....

However i'm getting feedback from multiple people telling me feeding a 357 revolver a steady diet of 38 spl is bad for it..SO...

I was thinking about loading my 38+P ammo into 357 cases..Are there any drawbacks? Is it something that can safely be done?

 

[Squaregrouper]

Please confirm this--- You want to use .357 Magnum brass to load powder charges of a .38 Special +P, correct?
If yes, I don't see any issues doing that. (Obviously .357 powder charge in .38 brass is a dangerous thing to do if shot out of a .38 revolver)

 

[[Kev308]]

If a 357 revolver gets damaged from using 38spl, then the revolver is trash. Where’s the logic in that?

 

[Brickman301]

Not damaging, but a steady diet of 38’s could leave a ring of lead/dirt in the cylinders. This ring, if not cleaned could make seating the longer 357 case difficult/impossible. Clean your cylinder well and everything will be just fine.

 

[HiStandards]

Some people are concerned about a carbon ring deposited in the cylinder from using shorter cases.
.38 +P load will give lower performance in the longer .357 case. You do not have to load .357 to maximum velocity. Find a .357 load that gives the velocity you want.

 

[4g64loser]

Not damaging, but a steady diet of 38’s could leave a ring of lead/dirt in the cylinders. This ring, if not cleaned could make seating the longer 357 case difficult/impossible. Clean your cylinder well and everything will be just fine.

Brickman hits it.

I use 38 cases in a 357 mag revolver and just clean the chambers after I do. Buy an Allison speed brush adapter for each cylinder configuration you own. Worth every penny. Cleans all chambers at the same time.

You own two very fine revolvers. Shoot 38 because the brass is cheaper and easier to get. Clean them after use. Carry 357.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

On a related note. ( slow typing me) seems others have similar thoughts above me.
Pretty sure I am right but there is a thing where folks caution or recommend against using 38 Spl in 357 revolvers because of fouling and inability to use 357 until corrective measures/religious or good cleaning are done.

Fouled Cylinder Chambers from using .38 in .357 | Grey Arsenal

greyarsenal.com

 

[alucard0822]

Some things

You can shoot unlimited 38 and 38+p through a 357, it can foul it, but won't damage it. Sometimes loading 357s is tough because the shorter cases leave a ring of fouling ahead of the shorter case mouth won't let them seat. potentially it could be overpressure as the crimp gets resistance from the fouling, but that is exceedingly rare in modern revolvers. Really easy to clean a cylinder with rings of fouling using a brass brush chucked in a drill.

38+p does have advantages in defense, less recoil/flash is obvous, but the long 357 extractor generally pulls the shorter cases clear of the chambers, and can help speed up reloads. You can load brass light for the caliber, like using 38 data in 357 brass, or 38 colt data on 38s, or one fun thing is 38 short colt brass with light RN bullets to add capacity to a lever gun or make a revolver really soft shooting. There is also the old competitors trick of loading heavy 158-180gr bullets to minimum velocities in 38 brass, but to longer 357 OAL, leaving a lot of bullet sticking out of the brass. They load easy, are usually more accurate than a 38 loaded to 38 OAL, and you get the easy extraction and lower cost of 38 brass. You really only have to load 180gr to a powder puff 700FPS to make the 125PF floor that many revolver classes require.

 

[Muleskinner]

Brickman hits it.

I use 38 cases in a 357 mag revolver and just clean the chambers after I do. Buy an Allison speed brush adapter for each cylinder configuration you own. Worth every penny. Cleans all chambers at the same time.

You own two very fine revolvers. Shoot 38 because the brass is cheaper and easier to get. Clean them after use. Carry 357.

I clean every time I come home from the range or hunting. One of the people that is concerned about shooting 38 special through a 357 Magnum said that shooting 38 special can actually cause flame cut erosion of the top strap. I googled it and I did find some evidence that suggests that's possible but of course everything online is subject to being BS.

 

[lazarus]

I clean every time I come home from the range or hunting. One of the people that is concerned about shooting 38 special through a 357 Magnum said that shooting 38 special can actually cause flame cut erosion of the top strap. I googled it and I did find some evidence that suggests that's possible but of course everything online is subject to being BS.

In anything rated to shoot 357, that is not remotely a concern. You've got the same cylinder gap in a 38spc as a 357, and by the time the flame front expands out of the cylinder gap on a 357, firing 38spc rounds, the gas velocity and temperature is significantly lower than it would be exiting the gap on a 38spc. You've got more expansion space in the cylinder of a 357.

Something you WILL get is lower velocity running 38spc in a 357. Not dramatically so, but there will be more gas blow by of the bullet as it leaves the case, jumps the gap in to the barrel and then travels down the barrel. I don't have remotely like enough testing of like to like to say exactly what it is, but similar enough testing, I'd put it at maybe 20-30fps loss running 38spc in a 357 for similar barrel lengths.

Anyway, don't run a 38spc +p powder charge in a 357 case. Just look up 357 magnum powder charges for the appropriate powder you want to run. Then work up a load. And load it to the velocity/energy YOU want.

For my 27-2 8 3/8" I run a variety of powders and bullet weights. But my favorite is an MBC 158gr coated SWC at about 950fps with Bullseye or Titegroup. Yeah, that does correspond to about 38spc +p power. Long barrel, fairly heavy revolver, nice tame recoil and blast. You don't have to load the stuff to max. I could push it to more like 1050fps for full pressure using those powders. With magnum powders I can push that well over 1200fps for a 158.

Or a 125gr at about 1150fps with jacketed bullets and BE or TG. Same deal, nice tame recoil. I can run those up over 1300fps with those powders before hitting max pressure. Or run it with H110 and push it up and over 1600fps.

If I really wanted to, I could run them down around mouse fart levels of 850fps or so for a 125.

You are more likely to cut the forcing cone than the top strap. If the top strap is getting cut, it is because your 357 is using some kind of aluminum alloy and not steel. Forcing cone erosion is usually when using very high velocity hot magnum powders. Like H110, but dramatically more likely with lil gun. And also dependent on the size of your forcing cone. A bigger cone will suffer less erosion and be dramatically less likely to ever crack.

Standard powders (non-magnum) in a 357 case are likely to never cause forcing cone erosion or strap cutting unless running some serious pressure behind them and many, many thousands of rounds doing that.

 

[lazarus]

Some things

You can shoot unlimited 38 and 38+p through a 357, it can foul it, but won't damage it. Sometimes loading 357s is tough because the shorter cases leave a ring of fouling ahead of the shorter case mouth won't let them seat. potentially it could be overpressure as the crimp gets resistance from the fouling, but that is exceedingly rare in modern revolvers. Really easy to clean a cylinder with rings of fouling using a brass brush chucked in a drill.

38+p does have advantages in defense, less recoil/flash is obvous, but the long 357 extractor generally pulls the shorter cases clear of the chambers, and can help speed up reloads. You can load brass light for the caliber, like using 38 data in 357 brass, or 38 colt data on 38s, or one fun thing is 38 short colt brass with light RN bullets to add capacity to a lever gun or make a revolver really soft shooting. There is also the old competitors trick of loading heavy 158-180gr bullets to minimum velocities in 38 brass, but to longer 357 OAL, leaving a lot of bullet sticking out of the brass. They load easy, are usually more accurate than a 38 loaded to 38 OAL, and you get the easy extraction and lower cost of 38 brass. You really only have to load 180gr to a powder puff 700FPS to make the 125PF floor that many revolver classes require.

Just one thing to point out, if you are loading your 357 brass to 38spc pressures, you'll likely never wear it out. Especially since it is more robust than 38spc brass. Load in the 25k range and you'll probably get more than 20, 30 reloadings out of the same brass. With a revolver, you kind of have to be doing stupid things, or competition to lose your brass at the range or hunting. So unless you are buying new brass to reload every time, it is de minus on the cost difference. Heck, I've been loading up a lot of 357 lately and actually running a little short on spare brass. I scrounge a lot of 38spc brass at the range, but rarely 357. Probably >800 cases of 38spc in the last 3 years at the range, versus probably 50 357 cases. I suspect a lot more 357 shooters switched to 38spc the last few years of high ammo prices, and/or 357 shooters being a lot more likely to be reloaders. Anyway, I grabbed 500 range brass cases for $88 shipped. About double the price of 38spc brass for sure. But at ~17c per case if I get 20 reloads out of each one, the less than 1 cent per case is not really a big deal versus the last than half a cent per case that 38spc range brass would run with 20 reloads out of it at the current price of ~8cpc for 38spc range brass (about 9c shipped if you buy 500).

Loading 357 to the same pressure as 38spc IS less efficient, but you are typically talking about a .2-.3gr powder difference. So you might get 30-50 less rounds per pound of powder if using 357 cases. But you also get slightly lower velocity for the same pressure out of 38spc cases because of the larger chamber and more blowby (so really, you could load about the same powder charge in both and get pretty close to the same velocity out of both even if the 357 is running less pressure). Plus, often slightly less accuracy as you noted.

It is kind of 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

I am certainly running a fair amount of 38spc out of my 357. But I tend to run more brass loaded to moderate 270-320ft-lb levels and not 600-700ft-lbs of full house magnum. The brass will live a very long life. Very gentle on the gun. More accurate. Less cleaning needed.

PS I do have a situation too where I do NOT want to load 38spc hot. My Colt Official Police, 1927 NJ State police, likely would not like running +p loads. So I make sure my 38spc is loaded on the lighter side. Under 800fps from the 6" barrel with 158gr coated SWC. So there is no loading up hot 38spc +p and using them in my 38spc revolver(s) and in my 357s. It is light 38spc only or whatever I care for in 357 that I am loading up.

 

[alucard0822]

Just one thing to point out, if you are loading your 357 brass to 38spc pressures, you'll likely never wear it out. Especially since it is more robust than 38spc brass. Load in the 25k range and you'll probably get more than 20, 30 reloadings out of the same brass. With a revolver, you kind of have to be doing stupid things, or competition to lose your brass at the range or hunting. So unless you are buying new brass to reload every time, it is de minus on the cost difference. Heck, I've been loading up a lot of 357 lately and actually running a little short on spare brass. I scrounge a lot of 38spc brass at the range, but rarely 357. Probably >800 cases of 38spc in the last 3 years at the range, versus probably 50 357 cases. I suspect a lot more 357 shooters switched to 38spc the last few years of high ammo prices, and/or 357 shooters being a lot more likely to be reloaders. Anyway, I grabbed 500 range brass cases for $88 shipped. About double the price of 38spc brass for sure. But at ~17c per case if I get 20 reloads out of each one, the less than 1 cent per case is not really a big deal versus the last than half a cent per case that 38spc range brass would run with 20 reloads out of it at the current price of ~8cpc for 38spc range brass (about 9c shipped if you buy 500).

Loading 357 to the same pressure as 38spc IS less efficient, but you are typically talking about a .2-.3gr powder difference. So you might get 30-50 less rounds per pound of powder if using 357 cases. But you also get slightly lower velocity for the same pressure out of 38spc cases because of the larger chamber and more blowby (so really, you could load about the same powder charge in both and get pretty close to the same velocity out of both even if the 357 is running less pressure). Plus, often slightly less accuracy as you noted.

It is kind of 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

I am certainly running a fair amount of 38spc out of my 357. But I tend to run more brass loaded to moderate 270-320ft-lb levels and not 600-700ft-lbs of full house magnum. The brass will live a very long life. Very gentle on the gun. More accurate. Less cleaning needed.

PS I do have a situation too where I do NOT want to load 38spc hot. My Colt Official Police, 1927 NJ State police, likely would not like running +p loads. So I make sure my 38spc is loaded on the lighter side. Under 800fps from the 6" barrel with 158gr coated SWC. So there is no loading up hot 38spc +p and using them in my 38spc revolver(s) and in my 357s. It is light 38spc only or whatever I care for in 357 that I am loading up.

Revolver range pickups have all but dried up for me. Used to get them regularly, but pretty much have a dwindling supply of 38s and 357. I competed with my 686 and 610 in the past, IDPA, steel challenge, falling steel and once in USPSA, but loosing a couple hundred peices of 38 brass in a big match kinda killed it for me. The 610 shooting 40S&W was less expensive, but moon clips cost a lot if I lost them on moving stages. My 610 is a 6" with moon clips, so unlike the 686 it's not legal in EVERY revolver division. I shot 38s in cowboy action a couple times, in a Ruger Vaquero and M92 clone, went from a few thousand peices of brass, and loading frequently, to barely loading for it at all. Personally, if I was getting into revolvers now, 629 PC and moon clips, cheap powerful ammo, fun as hell, and endless supply of range brass.

 

[lazarus]

Revolver range pickups have all but dried up for me. Used to get them regularly, but pretty much have a dwindling supply of 38s and 357. I competed with my 686 and 610 in the past, IDPA, steel challenge, falling steel and once in USPSA, but loosing a couple hundred peices of 38 brass in a big match kinda killed it for me. The 610 shooting 40S&W was less expensive, but moon clips cost a lot if I lost them on moving stages. My 610 is a 6" with moon clips, so unlike the 686 it's not legal in EVERY revolver division. I shot 38s in cowboy action a couple times, in a Ruger Vaquero and M92 clone, went from a few thousand peices of brass, and loading frequently, to barely loading for it at all. Personally, if I was getting into revolvers now, 629 PC and moon clips, cheap powerful ammo, fun as hell, and endless supply of range brass.

You have proved my exception. :-)

That sucks and I feel for you strongly. I probably have a mental disorder, but it practically causes visceral pain for me when I see a piece of my brass go bouncing off in to the grass and I can’t call the range cold to grab the two 9mm cases worth less than a nickel between them that just landed out of reach.

Revolvers and bolt guns help me with that. A lot.

 

[teratos]

You have proved my exception. :-)

That sucks and I feel for you strongly. I probably have a mental disorder, but it practically causes visceral pain for me when I see a piece of my brass go bouncing off in to the grass and I can’t call the range cold to grab the two 9mm cases worth less than a nickel between them that just landed out of reach.

Revolvers and bolt guns help me with that. A lot.

I’m glad I’m not the only one.

 

[Art3]

Revolver range pickups have all but dried up for me. Used to get them regularly, but pretty much have a dwindling supply of 38s and 357. I competed with my 686 and 610 in the past, IDPA, steel challenge, falling steel and once in USPSA, but loosing a couple hundred peices of 38 brass in a big match kinda killed it for me. The 610 shooting 40S&W was less expensive, but moon clips cost a lot if I lost them on moving stages. My 610 is a 6" with moon clips, so unlike the 686 it's not legal in EVERY revolver division. I shot 38s in cowboy action a couple times, in a Ruger Vaquero and M92 clone, went from a few thousand peices of brass, and loading frequently, to barely loading for it at all. Personally, if I was getting into revolvers now, 629 PC and moon clips, cheap powerful ammo, fun as hell, and endless supply of range brass.

I shot a .38 S&W in the last C&R 2gun match at AGC and probably lost about half my brass

I do devilishly chuckle when I think about somebody finding it thinking it's something else. They look kinda like a rimmed 9mm. I don't want anybody damaging their equipment, but I kinda want to Ha-ha! at their " is this" moment.

 

[4g64loser]

Revolver range pickups have all but dried up for me. Used to get them regularly, but pretty much have a dwindling supply of 38s and 357. I competed with my 686 and 610 in the past, IDPA, steel challenge, falling steel and once in USPSA, but loosing a couple hundred peices of 38 brass in a big match kinda killed it for me. The 610 shooting 40S&W was less expensive, but moon clips cost a lot if I lost them on moving stages. My 610 is a 6" with moon clips, so unlike the 686 it's not legal in EVERY revolver division. I shot 38s in cowboy action a couple times, in a Ruger Vaquero and M92 clone, went from a few thousand peices of brass, and loading frequently, to barely loading for it at all. Personally, if I was getting into revolvers now, 629 PC and moon clips, cheap powerful ammo, fun as hell, and endless supply of range brass.

If you need 38 special brass, pm me. I haven't shot in a revo match since at least a few years ago and my j frame fetish doesn't need the volume the 66 smith did (sold it, bought a 625).

A 929 with clips is the way to go but I kinda like the 625. If I don't want to use clips, I have a small stash of 45 auto rim brass from a friend.

 

[jimbobborg]

When I shot at Quantico, we had to police all brass after matches. Amazon product ASIN B00RPAH47K made that ezpz. And since you know roughly where you drop brass, especially after post match tear down, run that gadget around where you dropped them and you'll pick up at least 90% of them. Work smarter, not harder.

As for the OP, cleaning the cylinder after shooting 38s is also easier with a VERY lightly belled .357 case. Run that in each hole of the cylinder and it will scrape out the lead without damaging the insides.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I clean every time I come home from the range or hunting. One of the people that is concerned about shooting 38 special through a 357 Magnum said that shooting 38 special can actually cause flame cut erosion of the top strap. I googled it and I did find some evidence that suggests that's possible but of course everything online is subject to being BS.

Can shooting . 38Spl cause flame cutting of top straps ( at least in theory) ? Yes .

But any flame cutting with . 38Spl will be way , way less than with .357 Magnum . For that matter would be identical a load of same pressure with same powder in .357 cases .

So this one indeed rounds off to BS .

 

[Bisleyfan44]

I clean every time I come home from the range or hunting. One of the people that is concerned about shooting 38 special through a 357 Magnum said that shooting 38 special can actually cause flame cut erosion of the top strap. I googled it and I did find some evidence that suggests that's possible but of course everything online is subject to being BS.

Internet crap. Could it happen? I guess possibly, but first of all it wouldn't be because you used 38 vs. 357. That has nothing to do with topstrap erosion.

Topstrap cutting resulted from handloaders seeking top velocities, using light for caliber bullets seated over max charges of slow handgun powders. Max loads of ball powders in k-frame Smiths. (This led to the unfortunate demise of the 357 Max and the Ruger Maximum.) Generous or oversize cylinder gaps accelerated the wear.

Lil Gun is rumored to be a culprit in causing forcing cone erosion, but that's a different subject.

Modern steel revolvers are tough. I would not worry.

 

[[Kev308]]

You have proved my exception. :-)

That sucks and I feel for you strongly. I probably have a mental disorder, but it practically causes visceral pain for me when I see a piece of my brass go bouncing off in to the grass and I can’t call the range cold to grab the two 9mm cases worth less than a nickel between them that just landed out of reach.

Revolvers and bolt guns help me with that. A lot.

I was shooting 350 legend this weekend, and was only 1 of 3 people at the range. During each break I would pick up my casings. The last cycle I put down about 30 rounds, I went to pull my targets and when I got back the RO was sweeping up my casings. I was pissed.