Rebarrel a rolling block
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303_enfield
Ultimate Member
Maybe, used this guy to reline a Smith Carbine, Robert Hoyt, Fairfield, PA 717-642-6696. He does lots of muzzle and breech loading military barrels. It is best to call early in the AM.
Why not just reload the .43 Spanish?
Why not just reload the .43 Spanish?
Contact Hoyt in PA near Gettysburg
He had an apprentice a couple years go so he may not be doing 100% of the work anymore, not sure.
+1 on Bob, I have had him do work on a civil war rifle barrel re lining the inside. 'Was highly recommended by the NSSA folks
He had an apprentice a couple years go so he may not be doing 100% of the work anymore, not sure.
Brickman301
Ultimate Member
Like the others have said, he’s not in the area you were wanting, but Bobby does great work. Not sure how long his backlog is, but give him a call. He’s relined and rebarreled several rifles for me over the years. All shoot excellent!
My carbine was originally in .43 Spanish, and if it still was, I would keep it that way. But it was arsenal modified to .43 Spanish Reformado. Cases, dies, even correct bullets are not commercially available. It is not a simple reloading procedure. Cases have to go through numerous steps of modification from already scarce parent brass. No one offers proper dies.
303_enfield
Ultimate Member
You can shoot .43 Spanish (black powder) in the .43 Spanish Reformado. Tons from Cuba did.
As for reloading, RCBS dies can be had. Go to:
An read around.
Brass, if it comes back in stock.
www.grafs.com
As for reloading, RCBS dies can be had. Go to:
Sanity Check: 43 Spanish Reformado
I need a sanity check before I spend money and time. Currently I reload and shoot 11x52R Beaumont, 11.7x58R Danish, and 11x60R Mauser. Just acquired a Spanish Oviedo rolling block carbine in very nice condition. Markings indicate it has been rechambered to the Reformado cartridge, and a chamber...
castboolits.gunloads.com
Brass, if it comes back in stock.
Quality Cartridge Brass 43 Spanish Reformado (11.5x57R) Unprimed Bag of 20 - Graf & Sons
43 Spanish Reformado (11.5x57R) New, unprimed brass. Made in USA. This is not loaded ammunition. Quality Cartridge is a devoted manufacturer of Custom, Obsolete, and Wildcat cartridge cases. They provide premium properly headstamped empty cartridge cases in the widest array of calibers.
www.grafs.com
Last edited:
Rambler
Doing the best with the worst.
- Oct 22, 2011
- 2,219
I went down this rabbit hole a while back. I found out that a Frank de Hass aka "Mr. Single Shot" , had written a few books about classic single shot rifles including the Remington Rolling Block (RRB), all no out of print. It took a while, but I found what I believe to be all of them. He went so far as to make pretty accurate drawings of many of the classic rifles as well as designing a couple of new ones. The basic problems with chambering changes to the RRB are as follows:
They used more than one type of extactor with different extractor cuts over the course of production which means a change of barrel must match or be altered as necessary.
They were made in both the pre and post smokeless powder era and there were barrel conversions done decades ago (thanks to kits from Numrich) which are potentially unsafe.
There were round, octogon, and half and half barrels. This combined with the above and front sight groove can make barrel timing critical/difficult.
The barrel to receiver threads are true square threads which are quite difficult to turn on a lathe and require someone really knowing how to grind a tool and run a lathe.
After replacing pins, springs, and screws, I have not yet tackled the project of changing a 7mm Mauser RBB to 45-70 or ??? I experimented with grinding lathe tools and cutting test threads, with limited success, and put it on the back burner for a while. There are barrell blanks out there which require the machining outlined above. At this point, I think drilling, relining, and re-chambering the original barrel may be the easiest path for me at least.
They used more than one type of extactor with different extractor cuts over the course of production which means a change of barrel must match or be altered as necessary.
They were made in both the pre and post smokeless powder era and there were barrel conversions done decades ago (thanks to kits from Numrich) which are potentially unsafe.
There were round, octogon, and half and half barrels. This combined with the above and front sight groove can make barrel timing critical/difficult.
The barrel to receiver threads are true square threads which are quite difficult to turn on a lathe and require someone really knowing how to grind a tool and run a lathe.
After replacing pins, springs, and screws, I have not yet tackled the project of changing a 7mm Mauser RBB to 45-70 or ??? I experimented with grinding lathe tools and cutting test threads, with limited success, and put it on the back burner for a while. There are barrell blanks out there which require the machining outlined above. At this point, I think drilling, relining, and re-chambering the original barrel may be the easiest path for me at least.
I think that is his daughter. I was just speaking to someone about Bobby and he said his daughter was taking over the business.
That is what Bobby Hoyt does best.
For the OP, it's a nice ride up to Bobby's house. It is about 10 miles SW of Gettysburg PA. This is his address.
Robert A. Hoyt 700 Fairfield Station Road Fairfield, PA 17320
I think it's actually his niece. But his shop is apparently not taking on any new work right now until after March due to backlog.
I think the rolling block threads are not square.
They’re V type threads.
Any competent gunsmith should be able to do the work.
They’re V type threads.
Any competent gunsmith should be able to do the work.
I went and checked Rolling block barrel tenons and threads. Mostly my statement was wrong but not entirely. The other poster is more correct, but not to the fullest extent.
Out of the 4 principle actions, 5 including Remington Hepburn, some have v type but they are mostly square dependent on era and number of the action. (DeHaas books for which I maintain some of them, is the source)
For cutting square threads I checked with a machinist who cuts them for which apparently they are still used for industrial applications like complex valve arrangements for travel that are 36" + long and used in specialized environments.
The threads rely on tension against themselves and should have a clearance factor for the height in opposition to their opposing surface or they will bind and or twist the material they are being threaded into. ( Think like cracked M17 JA and Avis replacement barrels)
Vickery's book goes into some detail for how to cut them as well as create the tooling but is vague to some extent, however other information is available for someone who is interested some of which I keep as well if anyone wanted to see it.
Out of the 4 principle actions, 5 including Remington Hepburn, some have v type but they are mostly square dependent on era and number of the action. (DeHaas books for which I maintain some of them, is the source)
For cutting square threads I checked with a machinist who cuts them for which apparently they are still used for industrial applications like complex valve arrangements for travel that are 36" + long and used in specialized environments.
The threads rely on tension against themselves and should have a clearance factor for the height in opposition to their opposing surface or they will bind and or twist the material they are being threaded into. ( Think like cracked M17 JA and Avis replacement barrels)
Vickery's book goes into some detail for how to cut them as well as create the tooling but is vague to some extent, however other information is available for someone who is interested some of which I keep as well if anyone wanted to see it.
Rambler
Doing the best with the worst.
- Oct 22, 2011
- 2,219
You are largely correct. Without actual specific theads spcifications to which you refer, I think what your personal references are referring to in the world of industrial threads are "Acme" threads, or some similar variant. These are the "square" threads which are used in the lead screws in machinery which are designed to minimise backlash. All of these varients of square threads are notorius to make from scratch. Atlas was standardized upon for modern machinery and is readily available as all-thread, nuts etc. The RRB square thread is still more notorius to turn from scratch.
Same guy makes Krag barrels for me from take off SA barrels.
I said earlier, any competent gunsmith/machinist can do this.
So I think I'm largely correct, becuase I use them on some of my guns based on the information I provided him.
I didn't say its easy, but I'm going with the guy who gets paid post handsomely for his work.
What exactly dont you get or what are you thinking or trying to say?
Rambler
Doing the best with the worst.
- Oct 22, 2011
- 2,219
No arguement at all; it is not a matter of any competent machinist being able to cut them or not. I am saying that the RRB square thread itself is a challenge for anyone not well versed in cutting that specific type of threads; they once were common, and people familiar with them and able to do them as a matter of course, are aging out. The vaguaries you refer to are the things which make it difficult. Basically, it the lack of any "relief" on the threads (pitch, depth, or width) and the importance of absolutely correct "timing" on the lathe on each pass of thread cutting. A good, experienced machinist can do this with the right lathe and hand made cutting tool. The issue is these threads are somewhat uncommon today and may not be something a run of the mill shop cannot do on a vintage part without a practice run or so.
These production details are why true square cut threads mostly went away over time., strong though they might be.
True square threads are easy to cut. Easy to grind a tool for (only need to grind more side relief due to the helix.) Its the reason they were used back then. They aren't as strong as acme threads either.
Timing barrel threads is the exact same difficulty no matter the thread type.
Timing barrel threads is the exact same difficulty no matter the thread type.
Yes the-yr out there and some people know how to do this sort of work even though its uncommon.
I was going to post up drawings for cutting tools and specific information for how to cut the threads last night, but now I think its not necessary.
Boring out the tenon and sleeving it to a new barrel would would be another option however that would be dependent on existing measurements of the old barrel stub and caliber choice intended by the owner.
And, quality of the work if the barrels already been changed once. Then again, it may not even have square threads.
Thank you for this information.
Does Mr. Hoyt have a business website or email?
Thanks again
madmantrapper
Ultimate Member
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