Question regarding holding a handgun for someone

[rmorse]

Hi guys,

I have an interesting situation, and want to make sure I'm abiding by all the laws. My brother is a Captain in the Army, and is currently stationed in Germany. However, he is a Texas resident. I, obviously, am a Maryland resident.

He purchased a 9mm handgun from a friend of his, who lives in Arizona. The plan originally was for his friend to hold the handgun until my brother came back to the states, which was supposed to be in about six weeks. My brother would then take possession of the gun, and all is well.

However, my brother just received word that he is headed to the sandbox for a one year duty, and then will be coming to the states. Is it legal for me to hold the handgun for a year, until he comes back to the states? If so, is it also legal for me to use the handgun at the range? If it's not legal, do you have any advice as to how we should proceed?

Thanks. Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[Markp]

While in theory you could borrow it from the current owner, this is a bad idea.

What needs to happen is a legal transfer through an FFL from the person who owns the gun in AZ to either you or your brother. Further, when your brother comes back it would be necessary to transfer it to him through an FFL as well.

While it is legal to loan a weapon to you, this situation has too many potential pitfalls, and you should NOT do that. If the loan of the weapon was questioned or anyone's story didn't match up, you'd be the one suffering the consequences. DON'T DO IT WITHOUT A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEE CONDUCTING THE TRANSFER.

 

[rmorse]

Well, that's not what I wanted to hear at all! Lol.

Ok, so, his buddy would have to ship it to me through an FFL to FFL. And then would it be considered my gun, until my brother gets back and I do another FFL to FFL transfer to give him the gun?

 

[John from MD]

I agree. Have the buddy ship it to a MD ffl and you keep it until he gets back. That way you can use it all you want.

 

[lx1x]

Well, that's not what I wanted to hear at all! Lol.

Ok, so, his buddy would have to ship it to me through an FFL to FFL. And then would it be considered my gun, until my brother gets back and I do another FFL to FFL transfer to give him the gun?

pretty much..

safe way since you didnt mention how your brother bought it..

he lives in texas but bought it from a buddy in arizona.. did they do an ffl transfer since its an interstate transaction?

 

[rmorse]

pretty much..

safe way since you didnt mention how your brother bought it..

he lives in texas but bought it from a buddy in arizona.. did they do an ffl transfer since its an interstate transaction?

He has bought it, but not really. He gave his friend the money on good faith. Legally, his friend has not sold the handgun yet, and my brother just gave him some money. Does that make sense?

So, that's why we're trying to figure out how to proceed legally, what makes sense.

 

[Robert1955]

This is a good example of whats broken in this state. If I can legally purchase a "Regulated" weapon and have done so in the past and have gone thru the checks, and have not committed a crime that would disqualify me from ownership what the heck does it matter what I own or have in my possession?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I hate to bring this up, but if he transfers the gun here and transfers it to himself when its really a gun for his brother... thats a straw purchase!

I guess if I had to suggest something... have the guy in AZ ship it to your brothers FFL in TX. Talk to the FFL in TX and make sure they are ok holding the gun for him until he gets back. If he is not, find another FFL in TX....

Thats the only legal way I can think to do it.

 

[rmorse]

I agree. Have the buddy ship it to a MD ffl and you keep it until he gets back. That way you can use it all you want.

Yea, looks like that might be what has to happen. I see his buddy soon (mutual friend), so that's why I was asking. It would have been easiest to just have the gun exchange hands face-to-face, but we are both ignorant of the gun laws. We obviously want to do what is legal, which brings me to this post lol.

 

[lx1x]

I hate to bring this up, but if he transfers the gun here and transfers it to himself when its really a gun for his brother... thats a straw purchase!

Not necessarily. If all went to ffls like mark mentioned.

Friend ships it to MD ffl. Brother fills proper forms. Then transfer back to actual buyer via ffl when he gets back to the states.

 

[rmorse]

I hate to bring this up, but if he transfers the gun here and transfers it to himself when its really a gun for his brother... thats a straw purchase!

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought a straw purchase would be if I bought it for someone and then gave it to that person, so the gun is registered to me and not the other person? In my case, the owner/possessor of the gun will be registered.

I just want to make it clear - I am NOT trying to circumvent any laws here.

 

[rmorse]

Not necessarily. If all went to ffls like mark mentioned.

Friend ships it to MD ffl. Brother fills proper forms. Then transfer back to actual buyer via ffl also.

There's an FFL two miles from my house, so it's looking like we'll proceed like that.

 

[lx1x]

There's an FFL two miles from my house, so it's looking like we'll proceed like that.

Gtg then. Just have to wait 60+ days.

 

[rmorse]

Gtg then. Just have to wait 60+ days.

Probably longer. I have two stripped lowers coming in this friday. So I would already have to wait for them.

 

[lx1x]

Probably longer. I have two stripped lowers coming in this friday. So I would already have to wait for them.

Don't have designated collector? It probably return faster than the firearms.. lol

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Not necessarily. If all went to ffls like mark mentioned.

Friend ships it to MD ffl. Brother fills proper forms. Then transfer back to actual buyer via ffl when he gets back to the states.

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought a straw purchase would be if I bought it for someone and then gave it to that person, so the gun is registered to me and not the other person? In my case, the owner/possessor of the gun will be registered.

I just want to make it clear - I am NOT trying to circumvent any laws here.

On the transfer paperwork, when it says... without quoting... are you the actual purchaser of this gun... he can not legally answer that question and still have the paperwork approved. Running it through an FFL does not make it legal if you have to lie on the paperwork. My understanding of a straw purchase is whenever you have a third party involved... the person who is doing the paperwork must be the person the gun belongs to. In this case, the gun will be his brothers... so he can't legally do the paperwork for it.

Oh and clearly you are trying to stay legal... no reason to doubt that by asking a question...

 

[rmorse]

Don't have designated collector? It probably return faster than the firearms.. lol

I'm new to guns.... Well, not really. I'm new to having my own guns. Trying to catch up and learn all the laws.

 

[lx1x]

I'm new to guns.... Well, not really. I'm new to having my own guns. Trying to catch up and learn all the laws.

look under my sig..

its a form just fill out and have it notarized.. stamp and mail.. that is all needed.


1 regulated gun/month will not apply to you when the letter gets back.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Here is the law on straw purchase:

"[(t)] (V) “Straw purchase” means a sale of a regulated firearm in which a person uses another, known as the straw purchaser, to:
(1) complete the application to purchase a regulated firearm;
(2) take initial possession of the regulated firearm; and
(3) subsequently transfer the regulated firearm to the person."

Most FFLs are extremely friendly to Military Personal. If he has a normal dealer in TX, I would give it a 90% chance he will hold the gun for your brother until he gets back.

Now maybe there is a point to be made in (3) if you subsequently transfer the firearm to the person's FFL... but its pretty damn close to a straw purchase...

 

[rmorse]

On the transfer paperwork, when it says... without quoting... are you the actual purchaser of this gun... he can not legally answer that question and still have the paperwork approved. Running it through an FFL does not make it legal if you have to lie on the paperwork. My understanding of a straw purchase is whenever you have a third party involved... the person who is doing the paperwork must be the person the gun belongs to. In this case, the gun will be his brothers... so he can't legally do the paperwork for it.

Ohhhhh. Well damn. I've never done this before, which is why I wouldn't know that.

Ok, well, what if my brother gave me the money. I give the mutual friend that money. I legally bought the gun. Then my brother buys the gun back from me?

I'm so confused. And I really don't want to do anything illegal.