Question on Hbars...for the braintrust

[lee2]

ok here goes.
A colt HBAR marked lower reciever (since the lower is the gun),
with a non colt upper, still unregulated or not?
the MSP refers you the assault weapons list....

 

[Name Taken]

Is the upper a HBAR?

You are tip toeing around a vague legal issue. Want to be a test case?

 

[Norton]

I would first ask how the lower was transferred previously.

Was it done as an HBAR on just a 4473 or was it done as a regulated firearm?

 

[lee2]

I would first ask how the lower was transferred previously.

Was it done as an HBAR on just a 4473 or was it done as a regulated firearm?

good point i will look into this.

if it was a heavy barrel but non colt i guess it would be ok.

 

[NateIU10]

Is the rifle currently in an hbar configuration regardless of the lower marking?

 

[Name Taken]

good point i will look into this.

if it was a heavy barrel but non colt i guess it would be ok.

Many FFL's sell non Colt but HBAR Ar's non regulated.

 

[mopar92]

Unregulated if HBAR upper. Regulated if not. Same as the lower sans upper is still regulated no matter what markings.

 

[Name Taken]

Unregulated if HBAR upper. Regulated if not. Same as the lower sans upper is still regulated no matter what markings.

I feel a good gun attorney would have an EASY case on a Colt HBAR lower with NO UPPER being sold FTF.

If the HBAR lower has a non HBAR upper that'll be a gray area for sure...but still debatable.

HBAR upper and lower you should be GTG.

The state and fed declares the LOWER is the firearm. If the firearm is labeled Colt HBAR and does not have any UPPER that's a hard case to take to court honestly.

 

[mopar92]

In any state but MD I'd agree with you.

 

[Name Taken]

In any state but MD I'd agree with you.

Just read the law.

The state cant have it both ways.

It's a easy case really. Colt HBAR is exempt. Show me a Colt HBAR lower with NO upper and it's a FTF gun.

If the lower isnt marked "COLT HBAR" I wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole as I dont want to be a trial case.

It's really no different then the S-12's that some dealers insisted were regulated when they arent. The state makes a defined difference in the law from a rifle to a shotgun. A shotgun on a AK platform is not a AK rifle.

I always lean on the side of caution with this state...but if your right your right.

 

[teratos]

I would imagine that you would need to go by the specs of how Colt originally sold the gun. The HBAR lower was sold with a particular barrel on it. The law doe not state "HBAR lower". Any other configuration should be sold as regulated to avoid issues

 

[Name Taken]

I would imagine that you would need to go by the specs of how Colt originally sold the gun. The HBAR lower was sold with a particular barrel on it. The law doe not state "HBAR lower". Any other configuration should be sold as regulated to avoid issues

But the upper ISNT the firearm...the lower is the firearm. That's why you can get uppers sent directly to your house.

A bare lower marked Colt H BAR fits the law to a T. Taking the upper off doesnt make the firearm lower a "non Hbar".

The only debate is putting a non HBAR upper on a COLT HBAR LOWER....does that then make it regulated. That's a chance I wouldnt take.

I'd take a competent attorney all day to win a MARKED COLT HBAR lower alone is just that....a HBAR and should be FTF.

Just think of how lose the rulings have been recently. S-12 not regulated. .22 look alikes arent regulated....so there is some vagueness in the laws for sure. MSP, the FFL's, the Attorney General etc. all have evolving looks apparently to the vaguness of the law.

 

[teratos]

Did Colt ever sell a stripped HBAR lower?

 

[lee2]

But the upper ISNT the firearm...the lower is the firearm. That's why you can get uppers sent directly to your house.

A bare lower marked Colt H BAR fits the law to a T. Taking the upper off doesnt make the firearm lower a "non Hbar".

The only debate is putting a non HBAR upper on a COLT HBAR LOWER....does that then make it regulated. That's a chance I wouldnt take.

I'd take a competent attorney all day to win a MARKED COLT HBAR lower alone is just that....a HBAR and should be FTF.

Just think of how lose the rulings have been recently. S-12 not regulated. .22 look alikes arent regulated....so there is some vagueness in the laws for sure. MSP, the FFL's, the Attorney General etc. all have evolving looks apparently to the vaguness of the law.

well said.
if you have ever tried to talk to MSP licensing devision, as i have,
your phone calls go around in circles....