Pulled Over by MSP/Guns in Car

[brownspotz]

Moral of the story is...don't give them a reason to pull you over.

 

[Blackstar65]

Certainly possible.. but about those 2 other units that responded.... sound like a lot of manpower over an sop question. No chance it was for intimidation value, right? ..

Op did well. But he was being detained and questioned. Any idea why?

You say that because you had no intent to harm the Troopers. What we hear is car stop with two long guns in the car. At the least you go and see if the Troopers/ Officers need extra man power. The rookie trooper doesn't quite count as back up yet. even though they are riding two man the car is still consider a single trooper unit. The Rockville barrack isn't heavily staffed. The Tooper who performed the stop should have asked for back up. This has nothing to do with you per say but rather the situation. If the Troopers MSP back up was busy we (MCPD) would get a call to respond. A call for back up on a traffic stop involving firearms would generate at least two MCPD officers possibly three. If the the Troopers MSP back up got back into service while the MCPD officers were responding the MCPD officer may have gotten called off and elected to continue in. Or they were not called either off. Either way I wouldn't be as concerned about the number of officers and troopers that responded as it can be easily explained. Now once any and all concern of bad shit happening is alleviated some go back in service other don't. Also not much happens on that end of the County relative to the southern end when I works (Silver Spring). Many time when we are bored we go to to where the action may be eg:; a traffic stop with to long guns in the car.

 

[Brooklyn]

Did they happen to be driving by and see this stop and drop in? Maybe they were all going to meet for lunch after the stop? If officers are going to a non critical call and see another agency on the side of the road on a stop they almost always pull over and check on them or chat.

It really is standard practice if an officer drivers past another on a traffic stop to pull over and check on them. It's also normal when an officer does a traffic stop if others aren't doing anything to drive over there to check on the officer.

I also think if they were trying to "intimidate" as you described they would have at least asked for a consent search? I mean that's only logical.

My bet is that if op had not been as cool they would have done so.

Now op can elaborate if he wishes on how long they stayed...how long before the sec unit showed. If they showed together or not.. etc one may have been the supervisor..

The police " just sit here and wait " tactic is well known... they talk amongst them selves and glance in your direction ...maybe a frown or two... looking to see if you spook. Could be taking base ball for all we know...

I was not there.. could be just what you say..thing is I have Intel of other stops were questions about guns are high on the agenda. Now I have not had this happen yet... but I do grey man ....in fact my SUV is grey

I will keep an ear out...but this consistent with pattern..

 

[goose poop]

Certainly possible.. but about those 2 other units that responded.... sound like a lot of manpower over an sop question. No chance it was for intimidation value, right? ..

.

I have done enough ride a longs to know that cops stop and check in on each other. In the course of 30 minutes 3 different times cops pulled up to check. But at no time did any other officer approach my vehicle or even walk further than the MSP car door. It seemed to get annoying to the MSP as 2 other times cops pulled up and before they had a chance to put it in park MSP gave them the thumbs up and they drove off.

 

[Blackstar65]

You allude to the fact that asking if firearms are present is SOP. I would hope it isn't. Nor have I been asked that in the past.

Its not SOP but its up to the officer. It's a question any good officer has in repertoire. When I have a vehicle or person I plan to search or if I am fishing I will ask if there are any guns, knives bombs, drugs, other contraband, or angry midgets in the vehicle. The midget part is a ice breaker and is a private joke/ note of reverence to a PGPD academy instructor I had years ago CPL. Adams. I was a member of PGPD session 94.

 

[ground chuck]

Weird questions from the officer, glad it all worked out. better get that windshield fixed.

 

[Doctor_M]

Moral of the story is...don't give them a reason to pull you over.

Is that really the moral of the story?

OP was cool and handled it well. Crack in the windshield notwithstanding.

 

[ma_deuce]

Son of an old friend of mine is a trooper at a Western Maryland barracks that will go unnamed. Nice kid. His old man and I were talking guns at an oyster roast last winter and the son was listening in and asking questions about the HQL requirement and the other SB281 legal changes. He said that almost everything he knew about it he'd learned from his dad and other shooters; he and the other troopers from his barracks had gotten practically no training on the provisions of the new law, and that for a good while most of them didn't understand what firearms the HQL applied to and whether the HQL requirement meant that you had to have the HQL in your possession any time you were transporting a regulated weapon. While it sounds like the cop in Goose Poop's scenario was engaged in a little probing and provoking, it also wouldn't surprise me if he was genuinely confused.

 

[Doctor_M]

Its not SOP but its up to the officer. It's a question any good officer has in repertoire. When I have a vehicle or person I plan to search or if I am fishing I will ask if there are any guns, knives bombs, drugs, other contraband, or angry midgets in the vehicle. The midget part is a ice breaker and is a private joke/ note of reverence to a PGPD academy instructor I had years ago CPL. Adams. I was a member of PGPD session 94.

Just out of curiosity, what is your response if someone politely responds “I respectfully decline to answer that question”. Just would like the thoughts of a LEO on this. Thanks.

 

[Brooklyn]

You say that because you had no intent to harm the Troopers. What we hear is car stop with two long guns in the car. At the least you go and see if the Troopers/ Officers need extra man power. The rookie trooper doesn't quite count as back up yet. even though they are riding two man the car is still consider a single trooper unit. The Rockville barrack isn't heavily staffed. The Tooper who performed the stop should have asked for back up. This has nothing to do with you per say but rather the situation. If the Troopers MSP back up was busy we (MCPD) would get a call to respond. A call for back up on a traffic stop involving firearms would generate at least two MCPD officers possibly three. If the the Troopers MSP back up got back into service while the MCPD officers were responding the MCPD officer may have gotten called off and elected to continue in. Or they were not called either off. Either way I wouldn't be as concerned about the number of officers and troopers that responded as it can be easily explained. Now once any and all concern of bad shit happening is alleviated some go back in service other don't. Also not much happens on that end of the County relative to the southern end when I works (Silver Spring). Many time when we are bored we go to to where the action may be eg:; a traffic stop with to long guns in the car.

See if the long guns are cased and if they need backup op should have been cuffed.. no? Of course maybe that did happen..

I was not there.. I have no way of knowing.. but if there was a threat. I would think op woujd be asked to step out, no? And at that point search is not optional. ..

Most charitable guess is that after the mishandling of the stop were looking for PC to justify more.. that not so bad. Problem is itcshould have been " sorry sir, trainee you don't need a Lic... etc.

See that's the right way... if you are right about the training issue..

I am sure there is a training issue. I am less sure that fishing is not a offical policy of moms msp...

As I have said we need to reach an understanding with msp, and police in general


I wonder if the guns were locked. And if they were you would still think backup was needed...

 

[StantonCree]

See if the long guns are cased and if they need backup op should have been cuffed.. no? Of course maybe that did happen..

I was not there.. I have no way of knowing.. but if there was a threat. I would think op woujd be asked to step out, no? And at that point search is not optional. ..

Most charitable guess is that after the mishandling of the stop were looking for PC to justify more.. that not so bad. Problem is itcshould have been " sorry sir, trainee you don't need a Lic... etc.

See that's the right way... if you are right about the training issue..

I am sure there is a training issue. I am less sure that fishing is not a offical policy of moms msp...

As I have said we need to reach an understanding with msp, and police in general


I wonder if the guns were locked. And if they were you would still think backup was needed...

Your imagination of police work is silly to be polite

 

[Blackstar65]

Just out of curiosity, what is your response if someone politely responds “I respectfully decline to answer that question”. Just would like the thoughts of a LEO on this. Thanks.

I would ask why don't you want to answer the question? where we go from there depends on the totality of circumstances and your next answer. I have also been on almost 14 years. I have gotten well past the contempt of cop stage. (Yes it does exist to varying degrees or rather from officer to officer). If you said because I don't want to answer then I may just move on unless I have more and I am just trying to use your words to strengthen my case. Most cars I search I already have the right to search the car but I may ask anyway. If its a car that I already have the right to search and you say no I politely explain to that I am going to search it anyway and I explain why I have the right to search it.

 

[3paul10]

I am amazed how some people on this site love to jump on the "cop hating" band wagon anytime the police do anything. Some of you are so paroniod.....Cops back up other cops....if you see a cruiser on a stop, you stop and check on them. Big deal, stop the conspiracy crap.....

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

I would ask why don't you want to answer the question? where we go from there depends on the totality of circumstances and your next answer. I have also been on almost 14 years. I have gotten well past the contempt of cop stage. (Yes it does exist to varying degrees or rather from officer to officer). If you said because I don't want to answer then I may just move on unless I have more and I am just trying to use your words to strengthen my case. Most cars I search I already have the right to search the car but I may ask anyway. If its a car that I already have the right to search and you say no I politely explain to that I am going to search it anyway and I explain why I have the right to search it.

Blackstar, what constitutes PC for a search that you don't need consent for?

 

[Blackstar65]

See if the long guns are cased and if they need backup op should have been cuffed.. no? Of course maybe that did happen..

I was not there.. I have no way of knowing.. but if there was a threat. I would think op woujd be asked to step out, no? And at that point search is not optional. ..

Most charitable guess is that after the mishandling of the stop were looking for PC to justify more.. that not so bad. Problem is itcshould have been " sorry sir, trainee you don't need a Lic... etc.

See that's the right way... if you are right about the training issue..

I am sure there is a training issue. I am less sure that fishing is not a offical policy of moms msp...

As I have said we need to reach an understanding with msp, and police in general


I wonder if the guns were locked. And if they were you would still think backup was needed...

Regardless of what I type I think you may find something "fishy" with the actions of MOM's MSP as you stated. That's not a jab at you that's just what I think you believe. Every threat is addressed with handcuffs. Most are addressed with "verbal judo" and numbers sometimes overwhelming numbers. If that was my stop I:

1. would have called for more back up and stated I had guns in cases in teh vehicle.
2. As where, why and what you were doing or about to do.
3. Ran your history as deep as I could on the side of the road with the data bases I had available. Most road cops don't have access to MGUN on the side of the road.
4.I would not have handcuffed him however depending on my gut feeling and the attitude I got from the driver I most likely would have separated him from the guns eg:; remove him from the vehicle. He would have been patted down if he was removed from they vehicle. We are all trained that were one gun is found their is a high probability that two guns are present. This is somewhat a hard rule.

 

[Fishguy]

I am amazed how some people on this site love to jump on the "cop hating" band wagon anytime the police do anything. Some of you are so paroniod.....Cops back up other cops....if you see a cruiser on a stop, you stop and check on them. Big deal, stop the conspiracy crap.....

Judging by your screen name, are we to assume you are a police officer?

 

[Blackstar65]

Also consent searches gained via intimidation have been rules invalid by the court system (yes even in Maryland). Consent searches are usually the first thing challenged in most cases unless the report and defendant statements confirm that consent was not granted via intimidation or intimidation via presence.

This goes to Brooklyn and any other members: The best thing I can suggest you do is attend a citizens police academy given by your local or a neighboring agency. It will give you great insight into why we do the things we do.

 

[Blackstar65]

Blackstar, what constitutes PC for a search that you don't need consent for?

What I deal with mostly is the actual smell of burnt and/or unburnt marijuana but you can add plain view contraband like: grinders, bongs, roaches, actual marijuana; dead hooker on the back seat.

 

[Doctor_M]

I would ask why don't you want to answer the question? where we go from there depends on the totality of circumstances and your next answer. I have also been on almost 14 years. I have gotten well past the contempt of cop stage. (Yes it does exist to varying degrees or rather from officer to officer). If you said because I don't want to answer then I may just move on unless I have more and I am just trying to use your words to strengthen my case. Most cars I search I already have the right to search the car but I may ask anyway. If its a car that I already have the right to search and you say no I politely explain to that I am going to search it anyway and I explain why I have the right to search it.

Thanks for the response, Blackstar. That's about what I figured and would be a fair escallation. BTW, no police bashing intended... and certinally no contempt (my dad was a LEO in the old country). Just a staunch believer in not voluntarially surrendering liberties, is all.

 

[lsw]

Why in Maryland do cased long guns warrant so much attention, compared to other states like Pa, (or Georgia as another member previously posted), the police would perhaps run the persons ID and that would be the end of it?