PSA: keep your head on a swivel and your wits about you at west Va state parks

[Gryphon]

well heres some more info

we have always wanted to see the new river gorge bridge and hope to do the cat walk some day. any way we took vacation, got a hotel in beckley and Monday we did a lotta walking ( for me with a bad back, fake hip and fake ankle anyway) and it is amazing. so Tuesday we were talking about doing the walk that evening if it cooled down a bit and that morning we went to hawks nest state park looking for the tram ride to the bottom of the gorge and the jet boat ride to an area near the bridge. well like most of the time in the mountains we didn't get much gps or phone service so we were having a hard time finding the place. we went too far but were still in the park and we found a park gift shop/ranger station/bathroom building across the street from a nice parking lot with trail sigh's so we stopped and were going to ask directions. anyway once we got out of the jeep and read the trail sign and saw that there was a cool overlook we decided to do the trail first. after a few hundred yard or so, maybe more idk exactly we came to the overlook area, it is a beautiful place. no one was around. it was reasonably cool, I was with my wife, I was having a great time, then we noticed there were those .25c binoculars down in the overlook area. we didn't have any change so mrs 44 man said I will run back and get a handful of quarters from the jeep, you just relax. so I did.

now this over look id on top of a shear rock cliff 500-600 feet straight up. its 20-30 steps down with nice steps a center handrail and rock walls on both sides that tie into 42" block walls that are oval shaped with a spiked fence above that 12 inches tall to keep you from climbing up and falling to the gorge bottom. any way its a beautiful place and I relaxed and took pictures and was waiting for my wife.

while looking out at the river I then heard three voices behind me. I turned sideways to see three men in their twenties at the top of the stairs. one told the other two " he looks just right, go get whatever he has and I will watch for his wife up here".

it was then that I realized I was in a pit with only one way in or out and out was now blocked by three guys wanting whatever I had.

now I realized I was up shits creek but I was armed so I had to think quick.

I backed up to the wall so the couldn't get behind me, moved around so I could see all three of them, took my s&w bodyguard outta my pocket and crossed my arms with the pistol covered and waited.

they came down and when they were maybe 20 feet away asked if I was from around there I said no. they came closer and I told them they were close enough then they stopped and said they had a gun and for me to give them everything I had and to hurry up before my wife got back. I was worried for my wife. anyway I told them no. they said whey. I said they were both close enough to shoot and that I was not giving them a damn thing.

then the one up top starts yelling something at me and about that I look up and my wife walks right past them, down the damn stairs followed on the other side of the rail by the third guy. now I am like shit. my plan was if neccassary to shoot the two in the pit with me, they were on my stron side, ten feet away and easy enough target and then I figured on at least shooting at the third guy and see what happened but now my wife who is trying to protect me is in the pit and all three bad guys are in the pit. when they were looking at her coming down the stairs I took the opportunity to take six or eight steps towards the stairs, my wife went to the other side of the pit and for whatever reason the third guy went over to the other guys. now I am in the center, they are in a bunch at the small end of the pit so I told my wife to go back up the stairs and she did but the third guy still says we aren't done here, give us your money. I then uncrossed my arms and they saw I was armed and that was the end of it.

we told the park lady at the store who wrote everything down. she said that this kinda thing happens a lot. all the time. especially where the trails are close to a road and areas that they can trap someone in and that they try and prey on older touristy type people.

anyway we went back to our hotel and mrs 44 man wanted to go home so we stayed until yesterday morning and them cam home.

its a shame shit like that happens but I am glad I was armed, at least to some extent, I just didn't feel any of my 44's were light enough to carry on longer hikes. and I don't believe those three guys had a gun but I really don't know. and I am really glad nothing happened to my wife. and I wish she hadn't ran down into that mess to help me, that scared me a whole lot more than those three bad guys did.

and one more thing, yesterday was the start of the big boy scout jamboree right near there. I hope nothing like this happens to any of those kids or their troop leaders.

and I really hate pill heads and meth heads

Glad you were armed and everything turned out okay.

 

[OLM-Medic]

Call me crazy, but I also like to camp far away from the road, in unordinary spots, and with no lights on overnight, for this reason. There are some real nutjobs out there targetting people in this way and WV seems to be getting worse with it.

 

[Norton]

Call me crazy, but I also like to camp far away from the road, in unordinary spots, and with no lights on overnight, for this reason. There are some real nutjobs out there targetting people in this way and WV seems to be getting worse with it.

I haven't had any weirdness in many years at the Undisclosed Location, but there were a couple of "conversations" with folks back in the early days that led me to always have a handgun at no farther than arms length and to have a long gun somewhere nearby.

It helps that I'm on a private road, but it's not secure either.

 

[44man]

I have to say, 3 against 1 initially, I probably wouldn't have been so reserved.
Ask yourself, could you have actually done it?
What's your bottom line up front? what would/could you have done differently? If anything. Do you think you would have wanted a larger caliber?

It happened so fast and there was absolutely no where to go. I made the choices I did quick because I had to. Usually I am much more mouthy with assholes but that didn't come out this time for some reason. I was more scared for my wife. What they may do to her if I went down one way or the other. My plan was shoot the one on my left then the one on my right then unload on the upper guy while moving tight and reloading to put space between me and all of them. No plan after that. I could have done it but I didn't want to. But I could have.

My wife coming back changed the peramiters of everything and gave us an out, that and just showing them my gun and the fact it was already drawn and in my hand.

I am glad I didn't have to shoot them but I would have had things gone a bit different.

And yeah I am now looking for a smaller , light, larger caliber pistol.

Or we are gonna start going when I can conceal a 44 properly

 

[Blaster229]

It happened so fast and there was absolutely no where to go. I made the choices I did quick because I had to. Usually I am much more mouthy with assholes but that didn't come out this time for some reason. I was more scared for my wife. What they may do to her if I went down one way or the other. My plan was shoot the one on my left then the one on my right then unload on the upper guy while moving tight and reloading to put space between me and all of them. No plan after that. I could have done it but I didn't want to. But I could have.

My wife coming back changed the peramiters of everything and gave us an out, that and just showing them my gun and the fact it was already drawn and in my hand.

I am glad I didn't have to shoot them but I would have had things gone a bit different.

And yeah I am now looking for a smaller , light, larger caliber pistol.

Or we are gonna start going when I can conceal a 44 properly

Wonder how it would have played out if you both stayed together to go to the car? That's good food for thought. It'll remind me for the 2 of us to just "go to the car" in certain scenarios.

I think the tough guy in me would have said "You have a gun huh? Let's see it".
Good thing you had the drop on them with having it hidden in your crossed arms. That's HUGE right there.

Bet you didn't know your heart could beat right out of your chest like it did, did ya? LOL

 

[44man]

Wonder how it would have played out if you both stayed together to go to the car? That's good food for thought. It'll remind me for the 2 of us to just "go to the car" in certain scenarios.

I think the tough guy in me would have said "You have a gun huh? Let's see it".
Good thing you had the drop on them with having it hidden in your crossed arms. That's HUGE right there.

Bet you didn't know your heart could beat right out of your chest like it did, did ya? LOL

I never should have let her go anywhere by herself.

Their big mouths talking about picking me let me get the drop on them

And yeah my chest was banging

I just wish I knew why they picked me.
Old fat slug?
Looked touristy??
Looked like I had money?

 

[Inigoes]

I just wish I knew why they picked me.
Old fat slug?
Looked touristy??
Looked like I had money?

You didn't look like a dirt bag. Therefore, you must have something of value.

 

[Blaster229]

I never should have let her go anywhere by herself.

Their big mouths talking about picking me let me get the drop on them

And yeah my chest was banging

I just wish I knew why they picked me.
Old fat slug?
Looked touristy??
Looked like I had money?

You guys were the only ones there. It would have been anyone down there. Being alone is simply enough to be the "victim of opportunity". there's was no one else around for you to stand out from.

 

[El_flasko]

Damn, really happy you and Mrs 44man are ok. Thanks for sharing in such detail. Be well.

 

[pbharvey]

I never should have let her go anywhere by herself.

Their big mouths talking about picking me let me get the drop on them

And yeah my chest was banging

I just wish I knew why they picked me.
Old fat slug?
Looked touristy??
Looked like I had money?

I'm guessing pretty much everyone who stops at the overlook is a non-suspecting tourist. I wonder how many people actually get robbed while they're standing there looking through the binoculars?

 

[ROBAR35]

So glad this worked out for the best. Sounds like you kept a level head and had a plan. Now is time to reflect and learn from the experience. How's the misses dealing with it?

 

[fidelity]

44Man, when and where did you draw? You said it was a pocket gun that you hid under your crossed arms. So you drew surreptitiously as they were approaching you and slowly placed under a crossed arm? Then when your wife approached, you did your best to continue hiding the firearm as you walked to her, and repositioned the losers at the small end of the lookout? I can completely understand people not noticing the firearm (even as you walked past them, esp if they were also distracted with a new person on the scene) until you made clear that you had it. I'm just wondering how you got the drop on them, and if I misunderstood when you first removed the gun from your pocket. Thanks ahead.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Doctor_M]

Glad that you and your wife are safe. I'm taking a lesson from this. I spend a lot of time in WV, and other than bear deterrence, I more often than not do not carry, just because it feels so safe compared to MD... I need to rethink this attitude. When I can, I should. I've spent so much time in Maryland, I've never gotten used to carrying on a routine basis because I can't do it here.

Kind of messed up... I just need to get in the habit whenever I'm at the second home in the mountains.

 

[davsco]

we have a vacation place out in canaan valley. when we go down into elkins for dinner etc i generally carry just to be safe. around canaan, blackwater, dolly sods etc we haven't seen anything to worry about but of course have seen our share of bears. frankly i think the population up and around here is just too small to really make any sort of criminal activities worthwhile, not that they can't happen. driving thru beckley last year, that's a whole different animal, so to speak, definitely had the gun at the ready there.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Firstly, glad everything turned out as well as it did for Mr&Mrs 44 .

I would guess the main factor would be " Touristy" , with non- spring chicken a distant second . The local malfactors would assume that out of state visitors would at the least have cash or credit cards for several tanks of gas , meals, souvieneers , and probably at least one night in hotel .

I would guess from the first post, that Mrs 44 went back to car out of consideration for Mr 44's reported knee, ankle, etc and going up & down the steps .

 

[GUNSnROTORS]

Thanks for the rest of the story 44man.

Mrs. GnR thanks you too. I shared the account with her. She took it to heart wrt being prepared, planning and communication, and especially not getting in the way when things go south. She's also sending a link to this thread to our four parents, who all carry and know that at their age they might appear to be "perfect targets" to predators, but still need reinforcement from time to time to help them to remain vigilant and consider these complex scenarios. Once again, I salute your choices and performance under duress as this dynamic encounter morphed and am thankful it ended the way it did.

 

[Blaster229]

Firstly, glad everything turned out as well as it did for Mr&Mrs 44 .

I would guess the main factor would be " Touristy" , with non- spring chicken a distant second . The local malfactors would assume that out of state visitors would at the least have cash or credit cards for several tanks of gas , meals, souvieneers , and probably at least one night in hotel .

I would guess from the first post, that Mrs 44 went back to car out of consideration for Mr 44's reported knee, ankle, etc and going up & down the steps .

Or the big part, they were the only ones there. Did you read his account?

 

[Blaster229]

LOL. "Heroin, won't lose your hair, but you will lose your teeth, looks, and life."



Very good point. Its one thing to think about situations like these, but without simulating or roleplaying life-death situations like this, you never really know how or what you may do. Again, sounds like you had excellent situational awareness, quickly made a plan, adapted when that plan changed, and still managed to get inside the bad-guys loop. Luck/karma/God also was on your side.




All the above. I bet first indicator was your car with out of state plates, then they saw your wife, then saw you; easy pickings they thought. You had the right mindset, determination and equipment to stop it from a worse outcome.


Regarding your thought of order of shooting, etc. No one can say for sure what you should have done, or what would have happened any other way. But in general, I tend to agree with your initial plan, shoot the closest guy first, or most threatening one, whichever, then if the other isn't immediately running in the 2 seconds while you are shooting the first guy; if he's still posing a threat, shoot him second. Wasn't the third guy too far away? He would probably have been running, or shooting you by the time you put a few holes in his criminal buddies.

From just your posts here, I think you do have the courage to fight back if it was necessary; that's the first 'fight'. The second 'fight' would have been against those three younger guys; ask yourself if you have the skill/ability to do that, if not, get more training. The third fight would have been the legal battle, it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to go through court, even if you win. From your description, sounds like you went right up to the edge and maybe even gave them more latitude than legally necessary to defend yourself. I strongly recommend you take the legal Law of SelfDefense class from Andrew Branca, and Mas Ayoob. Take your wife with you, she needs training more than you.

Just keeping the discussion going, lots of lessons learned; so glad your actions worked and you are both safe.

Longest quote and needles self defense recommendation ever. Damn.

 

[Biggfoot44]

We love you too Blaster, see you at the Pig Roast.

 

[Minuteman]