Proposed Citizen-Accessible NICS for Universal Background Investigation

[mtoutback]

This is a registry of every gun owner.

Currently they are required to shred the information within 48 hours. Supposedly.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that this would be a registry of every gun owner?

What part of this proposal makes it worse than any of the schemes that the senators have proposed?

 

[Wolverine]

Better would be just to allow everyone to access the list of prohibited persons. John Smith wants to buy my firearm, I pull up the list and see if the John Smith standing in front of me is on the list.

 

[ericoak]

How do you arrive at the conclusion that this would be a registry of every gun owner?

What part of this proposal makes it worse than any of the schemes that the senators have proposed?

How can I not arrive at that conclusion. People that want to buy a gun voluntarily hand over their information to be put into a database. Why would anyone who wasn't going to buy a gun add their information. Thus, it is a database of all gun owners.

I don't think you understand how the current NICS system works. It most certainly isn't a database of all current gun owners.

NICS checks a bunch of databases to see if the person is prohibited from owning a firearm. The drivers license is how they know you are who you say they are. If the name they run isn't flagged for being in one of the prohibiting databases, the sale automatically proceeds.

You want us to voluntarily sign up for a database of gun owners. This is exactly what we don't want!

 

[Threeband]

Why not just give everybody a special implant or mark on either their hand or forehead?

Without the mark, no one can buy or sell.

It's just common sense.

Who could object?

 

[gmhowell]

Why not just give everybody a special implant or mark on either their hand or forehead?

Without the mark, no one can buy or sell.

It's just common sense.

Who could object?

A scarlet G? Or maybe a cute star lapel pin?

 

[press1280]

I would have to think any states' CCWs or FOIDs should be automatically exempted. Could this be done strictly on a state level(they maintain the data) as opposed to the Feds?

 

[JOESTEELER]

Everyone here knows that they would never destroy evidence in 48 hours or 48 years.They want what they want . If you try to meet them in the middle you will find your self standing alone.Ok if anyone can show me were a fired casing which there state requires before a purchase has solved a murder, assault or any other crime i will spring for a dinner a G and M outside of Baltimore. Plus they have a great bar. Go talk to all your local LEO and anyone else you may find ( no CSI fans ).They will never improve your quality of life. 2014 cried the massess

 

[SkunkWerX]

We are not making it known, or doing so well enough on the pro-2A side,
that "background checks" are already being done on ALL over the counter retail (FFL) gun sales,
which are the vast majority of transfers.

Once again, we have allowed the Antis to frame the argument.

Arguably, half of America is under the belief that there are NO background checks performed, AND that we NEED THEM!

I have been spending a lot of time with fence sitters and even some rabidly anti-2A folks educating them that every time I buy a firearm from an FFL
an "instant check" is performed to make sure I am not a criminal or felon.

Most of them tell me they thought that no checks were performed at this time.

WE NEED TO START FRAMING THE DISCUSSION.

They can cry about the gun-show-loop-hole and FTF transfer all they want to,
but those are a much smaller % of guns transferred yearly and this could be solved using the existing NICS process as it's basis.

I envision something like a NICS booth at gun shows, where, as gmprimr described, the buyer and seller would pump in their info, and get a "proceed" (or NOT) with a reference#.
This protects both buyer and seller they both walk away with the NICS Ref# knowing they complied.

On the PRO-2A side we are allowing them to frame the debate for something that has a viable solution at hand.

As well, the databases should be run by a 3rd party,
a non-government entity, to ensure privacy and that the records are truly wiped every 48 hours or so.
If the FBI, DHS, or any other agency needs information about gun transfers, they can get it ONLY with a warrant, thus preserving due process of the law.

This is so simple a freshman year programmer could probably write an I-phone app for it in a day or two.
And once again, we in the gun community fall into the "debate abyss" allowing the entire discussion to be warped and used for political expediency by our enemies.

I have not heard one Pro-2A politician, nor anyone else in the media, including the NRA,
firmly plant the idea that NICS checks are being done on a wide scale, and that the NICS system is the direct result of a similar public debate many years ago.

It may need tweaking based on mental health? or private sales? but it already exists!!

We need to re-FRAME the debate on our terms, not theirs!

We need to get in front of the issues, we need to lead the discussion, and stop playing 100% defense.

 

[pcfixer]

The current NICS system is not totally functional nor reliable.
So what makes you think the government will enact anything better?
Where does the money come from? Taxes.
Sorry NO Deal. KMA is what I say!

 

[ericoak]

Because we don't want to expand the NICS system. This is the creation of a paper trail on guns. Exactly what we don't want.

We are not making it known, or doing so well enough on the pro-2A side,
that "background checks" are already being done on ALL over the counter retail (FFL) gun sales,
which are the vast majority of transfers.

Once again, we have allowed the Antis to frame the argument.

Arguably, half of America is under the belief that there are NO background checks performed, AND that we NEED THEM!

I have been sakpending a lot of time with fence sitters and even some rabidly anti-2A folks educating them that every time I buy a firearm from an FFL
an "instant check" is performed to make sure I am not a criminal or felon.

Most of them tell me they thought that no checks were performed at this time.

WE NEED TO START FRAMING THE DISCUSSION.

They can cry about the gun-show-loop-hole and FTF transfer all they want to,
but those are a much smaller % of guns transferred yearly and this could be solved using the existing NICS process as it's basis.

I envision something like a NICS booth at gun shows, where, as gmprimr described, the buyer and seller would pump in their info, and get a "proceed" (or NOT) with a reference#.
This protects both buyer and seller they both walk away with the NICS Ref# knowing they complied.

On the PRO-2A side we are allowing them to frame the debate for something that has a viable solution at hand.

As well, the databases should be run by a 3rd party,
a non-government entity, to ensure privacy and that the records are truly wiped every 48 hours or so.
If the FBI, DHS, or any other agency needs information about gun transfers, they can get it ONLY with a warrant, thus preserving due process of the law.

This is so simple a freshman year programmer could probably write an I-phone app for it in a day or two.
And once again, we in the gun community fall into the "debate abyss" allowing the entire discussion to be warped and used for political expediency by our enemies.

I have not heard one Pro-2A politician, nor anyone else in the media, including the NRA,
firmly plant the idea that NICS checks are being done on a wide scale, and that the NICS system is the direct result of a similar public debate many years ago.

It may need tweaking based on mental health? or private sales? but it already exists!!

We need to re-FRAME the debate on our terms, not theirs!

We need to get in front of the issues, we need to lead the discussion, and stop playing 100% defense.

 

[mtoutback]

We are not making it known, or doing so well enough on the pro-2A side,
that "background checks" are already being done on ALL over the counter retail (FFL) gun sales,
which are the vast majority of transfers.

Once again, we have allowed the Antis to frame the argument.

Arguably, half of America is under the belief that there are NO background checks performed, AND that we NEED THEM!

I have been spending a lot of time with fence sitters and even some rabidly anti-2A folks educating them that every time I buy a firearm from an FFL
an "instant check" is performed to make sure I am not a criminal or felon.

Most of them tell me they thought that no checks were performed at this time.

WE NEED TO START FRAMING THE DISCUSSION.

They can cry about the gun-show-loop-hole and FTF transfer all they want to,
but those are a much smaller % of guns transferred yearly and this could be solved using the existing NICS process as it's basis.

I envision something like a NICS booth at gun shows, where, as gmprimr described, the buyer and seller would pump in their info, and get a "proceed" (or NOT) with a reference#.
This protects both buyer and seller they both walk away with the NICS Ref# knowing they complied.

On the PRO-2A side we are allowing them to frame the debate for something that has a viable solution at hand.

As well, the databases should be run by a 3rd party,
a non-government entity, to ensure privacy and that the records are truly wiped every 48 hours or so.
If the FBI, DHS, or any other agency needs information about gun transfers, they can get it ONLY with a warrant, thus preserving due process of the law.

This is so simple a freshman year programmer could probably write an I-phone app for it in a day or two.
And once again, we in the gun community fall into the "debate abyss" allowing the entire discussion to be warped and used for political expediency by our enemies.

I have not heard one Pro-2A politician, nor anyone else in the media, including the NRA,
firmly plant the idea that NICS checks are being done on a wide scale, and that the NICS system is the direct result of a similar public debate many years ago.

It may need tweaking based on mental health? or private sales? but it already exists!!

We need to re-FRAME the debate on our terms, not theirs!

We need to get in front of the issues, we need to lead the discussion, and stop playing 100% defense.

Thank you. You did a good job of explaining the reason for what I proposed - so that WE can frame the debate instead of the Antis.

Something's going to get passed in the Senate and likely in the House. We can either stand aside screaming about it -OR- try and frame the language of any BG check bills so that they minimize the damage to our rights.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Ok, so if they insist on infringing... Here my compromise.

Separate the firearms from the person.

You get a national firearm card, by submitting to a thorough background check, which enables you to do the following on a national level:
A. Own any firearm you wish
B. Cash and carry any firearm in any state
C. Concealed carry anywhere

Or not exercise it if you choose not to.

*** If you think a theatre filled with unarmed people against a lone gunman is scary, imagine a disarmed populace against a tyrannical government ***

How about we do A,B, and C like the Constitution recognizes without needing anything. Put the list of criminals in a publicly accessible database and check that to see if a potential purchaser is legally allowed to purchase or not.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

How about we do A,B, and C like the Constitution recognizes without needing anything. Put the list of criminals in a publicly accessible database and check that to see if a potential purchaser is legally allowed to purchase or not.

Works for me.

More I thought about my proposal, they would continue to infringe and increase the requirements, now wouldn't they? I am really a purist on the 2nd amendment and don't want to give an inch. The reason I don't like the publicly accessible database as opposed to an assigned number is for obvious reasons. Just because you have a number it doesn't mean you'll use it. Like a lot of voters. I tend to see those 2 rights in analogies.

*** When can we start taxing stupid? ***

 

[Doobie]

The assigned numbers would be "May issue". And then there would be a 7 cough cough day wait period to receive and we all know that you would receive it on the 7th day. If anyone thinks that Uncle Govt and Big Brother doesn't know who has purchased what (besides ftf, inheritance, gifts etc through the years), then you are gullible.

 

[ericoak]

The assigned numbers would be "May issue". And then there would be a 7 cough cough day wait period to receive and we all know that you would receive it on the 7th day. If anyone thinks that Uncle Govt and Big Brother doesn't know who has purchased what (besides ftf, inheritance, gifts etc through the years), then you are gullible.

Do you realize how many states allow FTF secondary sales of most guns?