Pre-1899 black powder cartridge handgun question

[Coggansfield]

3 Nov. 2013
1pm

Hi folks,

I’ve been lurking for years but am new to posting on this excellent and informative site.

I expect this matter has been covered previously but, if so, I don’t know where to look. My question involves pre-1899 black powder cartridge handguns.

Are these definitively considered unregulated antiques in Maryland or not?

Looking at the Maryland legal definition, they ought to be considered antiques:

_____

§ 4-201. Definitions.

(a) In general. In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.

(b) Antique firearm. “Antique firearm” means:

(1) a firearm, including a firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition system, manufactured before 1899; or

(2) a replica of a firearm described in item (1) of this subsection that:

(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

_____

Grammatically, the (b)(2) qualifications at “i” (fixed ammunition, etc.) and “ii” (commercially available ammo, etc.) apply only to the replicas mentioned at (b)(2) and not the originals mentioned at (b)(1).

However, I have been told on occasion that Maryland chooses to interpret things to apply the “i” and “ii” qualifications also to (b)(1) original pre-1899 handguns. In other words, basically all the state chooses to accept has bona fide antiques are cap-and-ball revolvers, flintlocks and so forth — and not late 19th century black powder cartridge revolvers.

If this is how the state interprets things, (1) do late 1880s and early 1890s black powder centerfire revolvers like early S&W lemon squeezers have to be registered and, if so, (2) do you have to go through the onerous new regulations to do so (permit, safety test, etc.).

Thanks, all.

 

[mac1_131]

if they are made before 1899 then they are antiques and not regulated nor is an FFL needed to transfer them

Md follows the federal definition on this

IANAL of course

welcome to MDS

 

[Coggansfield]

Thanks, Mac. I agree with you, of course.

Here's my concern, though: "...although I have also heard that at least some MSP officers still believe (erroneously, in my view) that pre-1899 cartridge-firing handguns are regulated under state law." This was taken from a thread just above this one (http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=136992, third response to original post).

Anyone had any direct experience with such erroneously thinking MSP officers?

 

[stupid]

I wonder how long it has been since a crime was committed using a black powder firearm.

 

[Seth]

I wonder how long it has been since a crime was committed using a black powder firearm.

What's your definition of crime? This happened a week ago.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

3 Nov. 2013
1pm

Hi folks,

I’ve been lurking for years but am new to posting on this excellent and informative site.

I expect this matter has been covered previously but, if so, I don’t know where to look. My question involves pre-1899 black powder cartridge handguns.

Are these definitively considered unregulated antiques in Maryland or not? . . .However, I have been told on occasion that Maryland chooses to interpret things to apply the “i” and “ii” qualifications also to (b)(1) original pre-1899 handguns. In other words, basically all the state chooses to accept has bona fide antiques are cap-and-ball revolvers, flintlocks and so forth — and not late 19th century black powder cartridge revolvers. If this is how the state interprets things, (1) do late 1880s and early 1890s black powder centerfire revolvers like early S&W lemon squeezers have to be registered and, if so, (2) do you have to go through the onerous new regulations to do so (permit, safety test, etc.)?

In response to a similar question yesterday, I posted a detailed comparison of the federal and state definitions of "antique." It is here: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=136992

While I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, the statutory language seems clear that if the frame/receiver was actually manufactured before 1899, the gun is an unregulated "antique" no matter what kind of ammo it fires, under both federal and Maryland law. However, even if one wished to act on the basis of the erroneous premise that pre-1899 cartridge-firing handguns are regulated, no Handgun Qualification License would be required to transfer such a handgun, because handguns that are more than 50 years old, if they for some reason are not regarded as antiques, would still fall under the Curios & Relics exception to the HQL requirement in the new law. Curio & Relic handguns are transferred under the pre-HQL rules -- form 77R, waiting period, etc., but no HQL.

 

[Coggansfield]

Thanks for this useful input, everyone.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Yeah , what they said , but ALSO :

There are different definitions of "firearm" in specific criminal statutes , eg armed robbery , ADW , use of firearm in crime of violence , etc.

Likewise , since they are excluded from the statutory definition of "Handgun" , for purposes of 4-101 , they would be "Dangerous Weapons" , and coukd not be concealed , or carried with intent to ( various case law ) .