Potentially dumb question... who is pastering their FFLs??

[Mr H]

Potentially dumb question... who is pestering their FFLs??

Seriously...

It seems to me that several people here (no names), are going out of their way to pester their FFL into releasing their purchases.

Yes, I understand they are bought-and-paid-for.

Yes, I understand "My Rights, Dammit!!"

But, by making the noise, I have concerns that dealers are being twisted into releasing inconsistent with their backlog, and people who are patiently waiting and otherwise "not disapproved" will be left on the back burner.

Also,. if any FFL is releasing to the squeaky wheels ahead of others in-queue, I would find that to be a bit of bad faith.

Sorry... just my overdeveloped sense of propriety, I guess... but it's been bugging me.

 

[mxrider]

I hear ya Mr. H. I have no issue at all of trying to "convince" an ffl to release as the law states they can, but everyone should keep in mind that there are huge backlogs that SHOULD get out first.

 

[aireyc]

While anything is better than nothing, it is frustrating when FFLs only release to people who have a previous ND through them. New purchasers of guns get screwed, while those who already have a stockpile at home get theirs earlier. Kinda like how celebs with the most money get most of the free goodies at different parties, free invites to sporting events, etc. I understand the FFLs are doing it solely to mitigate risk, but that doesn't help when you're out several grand and nothing to show for it but a few receipts.

 

[Reloader]

I'm sure it's happening, maybe not on a large scale but it is.

 

[jaycee2004]

I have only asked my dealer just last week what date of apps he was seeing come back in. There is no way I could demand him to turn over my gun. I know I have paid for it and I know even though my BG is clean, he should not sacrifice his livelihood to appease me. I will just wait until word comes back. Ive been waiting 80+ days for my gun, a few more days isn't gonna hurt me at this point

 

[Reloader]

mr h, your about due over at On Target aren't you?

 

[Applehd]

I don't think that I would consider as "pestering"... however, I reluctantly called Clyde's today to see if they had obtained any information on the 5-31 email from MSP. Mike told me that he heard of, but had not seen this email and he even went back to check to see if he had missed it. He did not receive it. He told me that until he physically sees it, there would be no action taken. I copied it from another thread and carried it to him. I explained to him that some FFLs were releasing and some were not. I also told him that I called Bart's to confirm that they did, in fact, receive the email. After reading it, he immediately placed a call to MSP. I told him to keep the letter and that I did not expect any special consideration as I do have one waiting in the dungeon... I just wanted to help pass along some information. We had a nice 40 minute chat about the way things are and the way they should be... and off I went. Mike is good egg...

... and for those wondering... Yes... Clyde was wearing plaid...

 

[flyingblind]

Today I spoke to Bart's twice, first time was to ask about this, second time was to buy ammo. That's not what I hope you call pestering.

 

[Mr H]

mr h, your about due over at On Target aren't you?

Irrelevant, really... I already have one of what I am waiting on.

I am willing to let it play out, as I'm just 28 days in and interested in the results.

I just really despise folks pushing for the "what about my..." resolution, and worry that FFLs will be caving.

 

[Mr H]

Today I spoke to Bart's twice, first time was to ask about this, second time was to buy ammo. That's not what I hope you call pestering.

I'm refusing to point fingers. This is a general commentary.

 

[04RWon]

Ive just bitched in threads. Im looking for a ffl who will release within 7-10 days to transfer my gun too. If theres an ffl who shouldnt have to worry about its customers, its the one for my current purchase. When a majority of your customers is pd, fd, mil, i dont think theres much to worry about. What makes them eligable for the blue label program is what ensures they have clean backgrounds.

 

[SteveG75]

Not trying to pressure my FFL, just trying to understand the ground rules. At 50 days today. Called at about 30 days just to get a feel for the returning applications dates. Called yesterday about the 8 day rule, to see what my FFL was doing. Was told one thing and then get on the forum to find something else posted for my FFL that contradicts what I was told. I know the FFL's are trying to do the right thing. Just frustrated is all.

 

[chris1205]

maybe the ffl's should start returning everyone's money to them because they really can't sell regulated guns to anyone under current law when the MSP refuses to follow the law.
I know no one would be happy about this, but gun stores stay in business because they sell guns, ammo and other sporting items or pawn stuff, but really how can you sell firearms if you can't actually deliver the product to anyone? I know I was told 60 days, but I would say that was completely misleading as there are people well over 90 days and I am almost up the 60 day mark myself and they are still in March somewhere.

Also, what criminal is stupid enough to fill out all of this paperwork and put the spotlight on himself if you know you are not supposed to be able to own a firearm?

I don't really understand the difference of a long gun purchase vs. a handgun. I know you can conceal the hand gun, but if you pass the background check on a long gun (which is a dangerous weapon too), then why would a hand gun be so much different to require a 90 day backlog? Look at the mossberg 930 for example, That would scare the crap out of me more than some handguns.

 

[mopar92]

maybe the ffl's should start returning everyone's money to them because they really can't sell regulated guns to anyone under current law when the MSP refuses to follow the law.
I know no one would be happy about this, but gun stores stay in business because they sell guns, ammo and other sporting items or pawn stuff, but really how can you sell firearms if you can't actually deliver the product to anyone? I know I was told 60 days, but I would say that was completely misleading as there are people well over 90 days and I am almost up the 60 day mark myself and they are still in March somewhere.

Also, what criminal is stupid enough to fill out all of this paperwork and put the spotlight on himself if you know you are not supposed to be able to own a firearm?

I don't really understand the difference of a long gun purchase vs. a handgun. I know you can conceal the hand gun, but if you pass the background check on a long gun (which is a dangerous weapon too), then why would a hand gun be so much different to require a 90 day backlog? Look at the mossberg 930 for example, That would scare the crap out of me more than some handguns.

Please note that only in MD and other liberal states are handguns "regulated". (NJ, CA, NY) now most states in the US a handgun and a long gun are legally subject to the same restrictions. (PA, VA, TX) now compare the crime rates of all states. Theoretically if MOM was right Texas would be "the Wild West". And MD would be "utopia". But it doesn't. Your issue is you are attempting to apply common sense to MD laws. Don't it will just make you angry.

 

[mdram]

While anything is better than nothing, it is frustrating when FFLs only release to people who have a previous ND through them. New purchasers of guns get screwed, while those who already have a stockpile at home get theirs earlier. Kinda like how celebs with the most money get most of the free goodies at different parties, free invites to sporting events, etc. I understand the FFLs are doing it solely to mitigate risk, but that doesn't help when you're out several grand and nothing to show for it but a few receipts.

its called a track record. you buy and come back as nd alot, they know you have a good chance of being okok.

you never bought, they have no clue who you are, or your background.

as i have said before, anyone that doesnt like how thier ffl is doing business feel free to open your own shop and do as you see fit

 

[fabsroman]

Guys, stop calling your FFL to find out what appls the MSP is working on. The MSP is posting a weekly update to its website giving that information. Last I checked, first review were on March 19 and second reviews were on March 3.

http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision.aspx

Sadly though, they have not updated it since that post on May 24. Seems they are about 2 months behind, maybe a little more.

I was just at my FFL an hour or so ago to complete some more paperwork for a couple purchases. Told him I am not in a hurry to have these firearms released to me, and now I have paperwork submitted with him for 4 different dates. Would prefer picking everything up at once anyway, but the NICS checks expire within 30 days. Essentially, I am willing to wait until he is comfortable releasing all of them to me, and I already have a ND with him from last month for paperwork submitted on February 26.

 

[rwbow1969]

I picked up another .45 on day 90 Did paperwork on 3/4.

 

[Mr H]

I picked up another .45 on day 90 Did paperwork on 3/4.

The collective..........

hates you.

OK, not really. But we look askance at you with mild prejudice, at the very least.

 

[Robert1955]

My FFL is currently on the release/not releasing list as change pending. No, I have not called them to pester them about my purchase. I do have a slight concern in that I bought a Gen 4 G17 that has 3 17 round mags and 4 of the backstraps, the 2 reg and 2 of the beaver tails. They also had new Gen 4's that had 10 round mags and I just hope my 17 rounders don't become 10 rounders by the time I pick it up.

 

[04RWon]

Here is all the information I received from my research. Please, please, PLEASE! Challenge my information and use the numbers and email address to contact these people and verify the information. It does not get any easier that this.

Quick summary:
-MD law requires 7 days from the day the paperwork is submitted until the day the firearm is picked up.
-MSP has 7 days to issue a disapproval. If there is no response within 7 days, the firearm may be released.
-Federal law requires 3 days to receive a response for NICS. If no response is received, the firearm may be released.
-It is MSP's problem to retrieve a firearm from a prohibited person. This is not a kick down the door at midnight process. MSP will contact the person and ask who they would like to transfer the firearm too. (Im sure if someone on the FBI's most wanted list bought a firearm the door kicking may be an option)
-MD law automatically puts you in compliance with Federal law.




ATF:

On 5/1/2013, I spoke with the ATF. I called 202-648-7090 EXT 5. I was transferred the voicemail for a "Specialist". I received a call back from the phone number 202-648-9999. He confirmed that MSP is correct, after 7 days the firearms may be released. He explained that MD law is more restrictive than Federal. So as long as the FFL is compliant with MD, he is ok. He also confirmed that it IS MSP and ATF that will come get the firearm. However, they WILL NOT be kicking down your door. It actually is them saying you cant own it, who do you want to transfer it too. He would not give me his name. He told me the same thing that Thomas Williams from MSP told me. That all this information is on the paperwork, the NICS website, and I believe the ATF website as well. He also said this is all compliant within the Brady Law. He wont give anything on official letterhead because its already printed in the laws. REPEAT THIS IS ALREADY PRINTED IN THE CURRENT LAWS. HE COULD NOT STRESS TO ME ENOUGH THAT FFL'S SHOULD KNOW THESE LAWS SINCE THEY ARE SUCH A BIG DEAL FOR THEIR BUISNESS.


MSP

Here are the emails I exchanged with Thomas Williams from MSP. You can see his email address, the date, and time of the emails. Please, feel free to challenge this info and contact him yourself.

Why dont you have your ffl call?

On Apr 30, 2013 9:21 PM, <xxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
I appreciate your assistance. Just one more question. I just want to be clear. This means that a NICS transaction number has not been aquired by the 7th day and its still legal for the FFL to release the regulated firearm. I know this is slightly repetitive to what I have asked but this is basically how my FFL asked me to word it.
Thanks,
John


On Apr 30, 2013, at 21:03, Thomas Williams -State Police- <thomas.williams@maryland.gov> wrote:

The ffl is well aware of the law. He knows what he is doing and in his defense he does not wish to release a firearm unless he has some assurances the person is not prohibited. Your ffl already has the phone number for the Licensing Division as well as the contact persons information. He is certainly welcome to call me but he already knows the answers.
Tom

On Apr 30, 2013 8:30 PM, <xxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you for the reply. Would it be possible to recieve that on a document to show to my FFL? Or possibly a contact phone number incase they have any questions?
Thanks,
John


On Apr 30, 2013, at 19:51, Thomas Williams -State Police- <thomas.williams@maryland.gov> wrote:

That is correct. A licensed firearms dealer may release the firearm after 7 days if they have not received a hold or disapproval from the MSP.

On Apr 30, 2013 4:45 PM, <xxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
Good afternoon sir,

I sent an email to you previously, however I'm not sure that it went through. If it did, I'm sorry to have sent this one as well. I am inquiring about a email that was posted that is said to be from you. The email states that Maryland FFL's may release a regulated firearm after the 7 day wait without getting a response from Maryland State Police. I dont believe everything I see on the internet and wanted to go to the source to verify the information. If this is true, would it be possible to get official documentation, perhaps on Maryland State Police letterhead and get it to FFL's? I would also like volunteer my services to assist in any way of getting this information out there or assisting in any way with the transfer application process. Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks,
John