POLL:Referendum VS. Courts

[fabsroman]

Look back at what sheeples in MD have approved in referendums (referenda? too fussy). ISTR several of them on the ballot last November.

Mob rule is not good for Constitutional, representative democracy in a republic. I agree that we'll probably get both, but I'm spending my time and money supporting the court routes and Operation 2014!

What gives me hope is that the gay marriage and gaming expansion questions were actually close. One or two percentage points was what made the difference. Of course, the in-state tuition for illegal immigrants was a tough one to swallow, but I don't think most people even understood that question. I know I had to read it 5 times and actually do research on it.

So, I am going to put my time, money, and effort behind it all. After October 1, the gun fund can be spent on the 2nd Amendment fund and before that I can volunteer my time to help however possible. What is sad is that a lot of people on this board will not sign the referendum petition because they do not think it is the way to go. What would be awesome is if we could get the votes quick. That in itself might send a message to our current politicians, versus us struggling to get the 57,000 votes for the referendum.

 

[Minuteman]

What gives me hope is that the gay marriage and gaming expansion questions were actually close. One or two percentage points was what made the difference. Of course, the in-state tuition for illegal immigrants was a tough one to swallow, but I don't think most people even understood that question. I know I had to read it 5 times and actually do research on it.

So, I am going to put my time, money, and effort behind it all. After October 1, the gun fund can be spent on the 2nd Amendment fund and before that I can volunteer my time to help however possible. What is sad is that a lot of people on this board will not sign the referendum petition because they do not think it is the way to go. What would be awesome is if we could get the votes quick. That in itself might send a message to our current politicians, versus us struggling to get the 57,000 votes for the referendum.

^^^___This !___^^^

Most important thing we can do now is organize politically against the most egregious antis.

We need to put all effort into the 2014 campaign.

Good or bad the referendum is happening. If we are shouting 'full reverse' when many others are shouting 'full speed ahead'; chaos will ensue. I advise cautious optimism 'all stop', and when the referendum is certain we have no choice but to support it with everything possible 'flank speed'. Because if we lose the referendum, the antis will use it against us for years.

I agree civil rights can't be voted away; but that's for the courts to say another day.

We are already on the defensive in many ways, the antis are going to keep chipping away at our rights every year, we must take the offensive, else we lose this state for another generation. Many good people are already turning their back. The rest need something to fight for.

I'm largely staying mum till it happens, but when it does we must support.

Is there nothing we can do to influence how the question is written? The wording is immensely important.

I'm only focusing on the positives of the referendum- it buys time to recruit more people to our side. We are already concentrating on the 2014 election and should have the best turnout ever. All reasonable/sensible people who honestly consider this issue know the right to self defense is inherrent and the Second Amendment is our only protection from tyranny.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flank_speed#section_2

 

[HKB]

I did not read the replies so here is my answer:
Both.

 

[teratos]

I would love for the organizations, MSI, AGC and MSRPA to get together and decide together what is the best route for us.

Wow, look at you Nostradamus.

You will not see these groups decide what is best for us. I know what you are getting at, but the choice of words implies our side is a bunch of sheeple, and we are far from that. What I suspect you will see are these organizations giving their positions on a referendum. This will need to happen, and it will need to happen soon.

 

[SamW]

I voted for Court.

Gun owners and believers in the second amendment are so out numbered in Maryland and I don't feel that is going to change in my life time.

 

[sleev-les]

I see both happening. Some don't agree with referendum, but even so, there isn't one person that wouldn't participate if it goes to referendum. We have too much at stake. I'm in the fight no matter where it goes. If the petition is started, I'll sign it (then vote against the ban). If not, I'll wait until the court battles, donating to MSI and SAF in the meantime since they will probably be the larger advocates bringing this to suit. No matter what the outcome, its important we all stick together and see this throught. Continuing to argue about which is better is taking away from our end game. Right now, we all need to work together.

 

[Tanknut]

I have said I am 50/50 on referendum. I think it would stand a good chance of winning. If we can get a huge turnout from the pro gun parts of the state. If this goes to SCOTUS there are parts of this bill that will stand. Antonin Scalia has already said states have the right to put some limits on gun rights. Magazine limits is the one that comes to mind. Also it could take 2 years to get to SCOTUS, and by that time we may be dealing with a more left wing court than we have now. So either way we go we have to get the ball rolling now, and come together, no matter wich way we go.

 

[Ifdot]

If this goes to vote we will not have the votes. I am an avid hunter along with the rest of my family. No one besides myself thinks this bill is bad. From the words of my father "there is no reason anyone needs to own an assault rifle or a hand gun other than to commit crimes." This is coming from the man that gave me a 12ga shotgun and a 308 rifle for my 8th birthday. I have spoken with others in my family and all have the same view point. I don't see this being a small demographic of only hunters that have this view point.

 

[JPG]

After going through this mess in Annapolis this year, I don't know what to believe any more.

First we complain that the politicians are not listening to us (we assume we are the "majority"). The politicians say they are listening to the "silent majority" and pass the bill.

We say, why aren't you listening to us? We say, a majority of the people oppose this bill. We mobilized 1,000's to oppose, several times.

Yet we are also saying that we can't take bill to referendum because we DON'T have the MAJORITY. We can't have it both ways, can we?

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

After going through this mess in Annapolis this year, I don't know what to believe any more.

First we complain that the politicians are not listening to us (we assume we are the "majority"). The politicians say they are listening to the "silent majority" and pass the bill.

We say, why aren't you listening to us? We say, a majority of the people oppose this bill. We mobilized 1,000's to oppose, several times.

Yet we are also saying that we can't take bill to referendum because we DON'T have the MAJORITY. We can't have it both ways, can we?

Exactly.

*** Feels like I'm at the MVA with number 1,852,673 and the announcer just said "Now serving number 12" ***

 

[Inigoes]

Court!

I do not want to leave my fundemental right open to a politician's interpretation

 

[foxmanb]

I say courts, because you can't vote on a right granted to me at birth.

 

[lilpenny]

Court!

I do not want to leave my fundemental right open to a politician's interpretation

Didn't that just happen over the last 8 weeks?

 

[chuckgregory]

Both! We need near and long term plans.

 

[lilpenny]

Look what happen in Richmond a few weeks ago. We lost that court battle. Our best chance is to vote, no chance in court.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Question: what are the chances of a stay being granted by the court while it is being contested?

*** Now that MD has a precedent for fingerprinting, background investigation, training and proficiency test for exercising ONE right, can we impose it on ALL rights?? ***

 

[alpine44]

Where is the ALL OF THE ABOVE option?

Referendum, courts, DINO, and any other legal way to fight the grabbers.

 

[vector03]

The way I see it is that there should be no vote on this as it is Unconstitutional. Even if the majority of people support it, it is still wrong. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.

I see no future in begging the voters of Maryland to permit the exercise of a protected right.

Court!

I do not want to leave my fundemental right open to a politician's interpretation

I say courts, because you can't vote on a right granted to me at birth.

+1


Court. My inalienable rights aren't poker chips or playing cards.

 

[sbmike]

First, I will support whatever the consensus ends up being that gives us the best opportunity to reverse the current trend of losses on gun rights in this state.

Having said that, I hope everyone is considering or will consider that after what happened in 4A with regard to Woolard, we seem to be again staking a great deal on a positive outcome when SB281 is heard in court. I know Woolard will likely proceed to SCOTUS but there are no guarantees there either. I also know that is a very different case from what is contained in SB281 but given the current momentum here in Marylistan regarding gun control, I think we need to always keep the possiblility of yet another court loss in our minds as we move forward in whatever direction we take.

In addition, we also seem to be relying on success in the 2014 state primaries and general election in a state where many of the liberal politicians are entrenched in their positions and are not likely to be dislodged by DINOs (I am one, by the way) or anyone else for that matter. Even if we manage to dislodge a few of them, we will still be far short of the number needed to have any effect on what has happened to us. I'm sure we will prove to be an irritant to many of them, but I'm not feeling good about the final results in 2014.

Believe me, I truly hope I am completely wrong about both these issues and I will do as much as I can to help this cause.

 

[rseymorejr]

What concerns me about a referendum is: Who will write the question? O'Malley and Frosh?

" Do you support the gun safety act of 2013 to protect children and puppy dogs and only places common sense regulations on gun owners?"

We would be screwed over by the ignorant majority of voters in this state.