PMAGs banned!

[DarthZed]

The US gov gets raped on everything they purchase. Trust me, I used to sell IT equipment to the US government under GSA contract. They get charged a premium for everything they buy, they just don't know it most of the time.

Tell me about it. My girlfriend used to work for a DOD subcontractor that created NBC software detection and analysis programs. She was a tech writer and got paid $30 an hour, but they billed the Gov. (Navy I believe) at $120/hour! The same rate as a developer who was making getting paid $45-65/hour. The company just pocketed the difference. (shrug) What'd you expect, an honest corporation? Its all about the money.

 

[sailskidrive]

Tell me about it. My girlfriend used to work for a DOD subcontractor that created NBC software detection and analysis programs. She was a tech writer and got paid $30 an hour, but they billed the Gov. (Navy I believe) at $120/hour! The same rate as a developer who was making getting paid $45-65/hour. The company just pocketed the difference. (shrug) What'd you expect, an honest corporation? Its all about the money.

Welcome to the contracting world, they used to bill $185 an hour for me before I came off contract. Still laughably, after all of the over head is taken into consideration most profit margins are only in the neighborhood of ~10% or less for big companies. Companies have published rates and the government auditors, laugh, are supposed to ensure that a company isn't making a windfall profit. Hence one of the reasons Colt was very nervous about the M4 contract going to open bid.

 

[hishaun84]

F. I just sent my buddy a bunch of pmags. Looks like he'll have to hang on to them until he gets back. Bummer...

 

[the Javid]

This. Likely with the government under pressure to combat deficit spending, the military figures that it's not worth it to pay for fancy polymer mags when the USGIs typically work just fine.

I'm not sure how many mags per 100 or per 1000 end up causing a "stoppage", but my thoughts are that a lot of non-front-line units are ordering Pmags that would be just fine with standard USGI mags.

I really don't understand how money can be why they would ban the use of something if soldiers are buying their own mags. If that was the case why not just say unit supply seargents are not allowed to purchase them, however if soldiers spend their own money, not the armys money, on pmags then they can use them and by pmags I mean magpul magazines not just any pos polymer magazine. Because in a weapon system like the m16 series rifles magazines are usually the cause of the failure, not the weapon itself. I have absolutely never ever heard of a magpul pmag failing.
Also for those of you who actually believe there are nothing wrong with USGI mags they were designed to be disposable. They are not built to be reliable after the first time you fire all of the bullets out of it. Also unless you have the equiptment to measure the distance of the feed lips there is no way to tell if steel mags are out of spec and prone to cause jams. I don't trust USGI mags because of how often I have seen them cause failures. Not cause I'm jumping on a bandwagon, not cause pmags look cool, but because they work every time. Maybe you think I take this issue too seriously. Well this deals with my possible life or death and I take my life very seriuosly.

 

[Demoneyes86]

I have a few gi mags but i change the followers to magpul ant-tilts and have had no problems at all since. Maybe they should consider that.

 

[I do not know]

This is just Army right? I'm enlisting into the USMC later this year and hope this doesn't affect me. I'm not the biggest fan of GI mags.

 

[GUNMANSUPERSTAR]

My M&P sport loves pmags and pmags love it. The mags are dependable and I have never had a malfunction with them. This is pretty stupid. I personally have no desire to lock in any other mag manufacturer in my ar15 lower. I agree with the contract/money deal going to someone.

 

[Gambler]

I have to ask, does this include the e-mag? Cause that is an obvious solution to this problem.

 

[boricuamaximus]

Oh and MILITEC has a NSN on the bottle! Doesn't that mean it's the choice of Navy SEALs and badass operators in the land of the sand? lol

NSN is Nato Stock Number.

 

[rglrguy]

NSN is Nato Stock Number.

or National Stock Number

As far as why they didn't say you can buy PMags but not a POS polymer mag... they would probably get sued by other companies unless the army provided hard data to back up why the Pmags are ok and the others aren't. Also, just because a company talks .mil into giving them a NSN doesn't mean that it is a good product or really approved for use.

Also, SOC has a lot more leniency in procurement than big army.

 

[RipkinC]

I have a few gi mags but i change the followers to magpul ant-tilts and have had no problems at all since. Maybe they should consider that.

Its not just a follower tilt issue, pmags are stronger, take a gi metal mag, hit it with a hammer, than try to load that dented mag... fill them with sand, shoot one etc etc. The pmag comes on top in almost every test except maybe a melting test. Yes gi mags work great with an anti-tilt follower in good conditions, but start abusing them, dropping them in dirt, on rocks/concrete etc etc and you will find them starting to have troubles. I have not gone to war nor have i even been to basic but i have taken enough classes and range experience to know that i want gi mags only as a back up, not primary. I have seen and experenced way to many simple problems with gi mags causing failures than anything past a faulty extractor.
Just like anything though, if you baby equipment, few to no problems with gi mags, if you beat the hell out of gear, i would go with a pmag.

 

[the Javid]

The field is not the place for equiptment that needs to be babied.

 

[mayor_quimby]

Tell me about it. My girlfriend used to work for a DOD subcontractor that created NBC software detection and analysis programs. She was a tech writer and got paid $30 an hour, but they billed the Gov. (Navy I believe) at $120/hour! The same rate as a developer who was making getting paid $45-65/hour. The company just pocketed the difference. (shrug) What'd you expect, an honest corporation? Its all about the money.

I think that's a little far fetched in the "pocketing money department". You are claiming that they just pocket $90 an hour. Built into her rate to the gov houses many items. Depending on the contract you have .... Health care costs/ facility costs/clearance costs/ taxes/administrative or any overhead labor costs associated to the program that can not be directly billed, so potential the Financial Org/Contracts/Subcontracts/ HR/ QA / overall management. Past that maybe 10-15% profit on the hourly rate. When bidding a contract the government expects these costs and has their own loaded rate table that they review and measure against.

Edit saw your post after I responded....

Welcome to the contracting world, they used to bill $185 an hour for me before I came off contract. Still laughably, after all of the over head is taken into consideration most profit margins are only in the neighborhood of ~10% or less for big companies. Companies have published rates and the government auditors, laugh, are supposed to ensure that a company isn't making a windfall profit. Hence one of the reasons Colt was very nervous about the M4 contract going to open bid.

Back up 10 years and compare government contracts to today its night and day profit margins have gone down. The pendulum has swung too far the other way . Many contracts today are Fixed Price which puts the risk on the contractors shoulder and to be quite frank no one wants to build some new technologically advanced item and have to be stuck with the over runs so in the end its loose loose.

 

[WARPIG [USMC]]

Now they're saying they are NOT banned...thats good news for the trigger pullers overseas:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ays-no-ban-on-rifle-magazines.html?ESRC=eb.nl

 

[mikec]

The last two paragraphs of the article are the important ones.

 

[sailskidrive]

I think that's a little far fetched in the "pocketing money department". You are claiming that they just pocket $90 an hour. Built into her rate to the gov houses many items. Depending on the contract you have .... Health care costs/ facility costs/clearance costs/ taxes/administrative or any overhead labor costs associated to the program that can not be directly billed, so potential the Financial Org/Contracts/Subcontracts/ HR/ QA / overall management. Past that maybe 10-15% profit on the hourly rate. When bidding a contract the government expects these costs and has their own loaded rate table that they review and measure against.

Edit saw your post after I responded....



Back up 10 years and compare government contracts to today its night and day profit margins have gone down. The pendulum has swung too far the other way . Many contracts today are Fixed Price which puts the risk on the contractors shoulder and to be quite frank no one wants to build some new technologically advanced item and have to be stuck with the over runs so in the end its loose loose.

It depends what kind of work you are doing; services, R&D, TTO w/ a deliverable etc. Companies providing services have published composite rates to the government that they have to adhere, anything involving R&D usually has a much higher rate, often 250% higher. There is a HUGE push back right now from the government on rates in general as they attempt to reign in the all of the labor costs that have escalated over the past 8 years.

But back to PMAGs... I'm sure this will get resolved or be ignored.

 

[mikec]

But back to PMAGs... I'm sure this will get resolved or be ignored.

It has, read the post before your last post.

 

[Ppat]

Unreal...

 

[Maverick0313]

Nope - they FIXED this!!!
http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ays-no-ban-on-rifle-magazines.html?ESRC=eb.nl

 

[AliasNeo07]

Now they're saying they are NOT banned...thats good news for the trigger pullers overseas:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ays-no-ban-on-rifle-magazines.html?ESRC=eb.nl

GOOD.