Planning a SBR, need some advice

[Mega]

My new years resolution is to do the paperwork to turn my 16" carbine into a ~12" SBR.
In addition, while I'm at it, I want to get a can I can use on the SBR, my SPR, and occasionally on my Zimmerman precision .22

This is the patient.

The paperwork is confusing enough... When does it get filed? Before the build, or after?
Which forms are needed for each item? Is a trust needed?

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/shortbarreled-rifels-sbrs/

Now to the SBR...

In my research, it seems that the 12 to 12.5" barrels are the most reliable. Would that be a correct assumption?
Since the barrel will be replaced, do I stick with a carbine length gas system, or will a 12.5" allow for a mid-length, and greater reliability?

The gun has a set of 7" MI free float rails on it, but I'd like the rails to cover as much of the barrel as is practical. What length hand guard on a 12.5" barrel? 10"?

Obviously a low profile gas block will be needed. I'm leaning towards a LaRue along with a LaRue quad railed hand guard.

On to the can...

Ops Inc? SWR? Another brand?

This is the SPR that the can will also see duty on.

Since this can will also see occasional duty on the precision Zimmerman .22, how critical is a cleanable can, since the .22 is allegedly 'dirtier'?

How about a quick-mount brake for the can? I'm not so sure that I want to deal with possibly buggering up the threads on my precision barrels.

Lots of questions, I know...

 

[mikec]

You need the forms approved before you modify the gun. Do not buy a short barrel unless you have the tax stamp in your hand.

Trust is optional. It would eliminate the need for MSP sign off.

 

[FrankOceanXray]

I think I am going to go through with some paperwork this year too. There is a great NFA write-up in one of the forums here.

 

[Mega]

You need the forms approved before you modify the gun. Do not buy a short barrel unless you have the tax stamp in your hand.

Trust is optional. It would eliminate the need for MSP sign off.

Good to know.
Which forms for the SBR and which for the can? Do I need the s/n of the can before I can file the paperwork?

Trust sounds like the way to go. Gotta read up on it.

 

[Jay]

I've got a question regarding SBRs. When you do the paperwork, what are the MSP after? Is it paperwork that says your registered lower will be attached to a x" long barrel making it a SBR?

 

[Mega]

I've got a question regarding SBRs. When you do the paperwork, what are the MSP after? Is it paperwork that says your already registered lower will be attached to a x" long barrel making it a SBR?

Fixed that for you.
Good question.

 

[Markp]

Good to know.
Which forms for the SBR and which for the can? Do I need the s/n of the can before I can file the paperwork?

Trust sounds like the way to go. Gotta read up on it.

Yes, you need serial numbers before you file the form 1, or a form 4. I assume that you are not making your own can, so that will be transferred on a form 4 from the dealer who will have the serial number of the silencer before you buy it. With the SBR, I have always used the trust route.

It is pretty easy to use quicken will maker to crank out a simple trust, if you need a more complex trust you might want a lawyer to be involved (at least to review the trust for you.) Simple trusts, like the one I did, are not overly involved.

As others have said, you cannot have the SBR or silencer in your possession without approved paperwork. It is a FELONY to possess either without the appropriate tax stamps.

With regard to reliability, my 7.5" upper had ran flawless from day one. I purchased it from Model 1 Sales, it is chrome lined and floated but otherwise nothing special.

Mark

 

[snavematt]

Talk to some of the industry partners they will walk you thru the process, I would get a dedicated upper for the SBR, not just the barrel that way you can switch out uppers for whatever your doing, I suggest a trust, get will maker from Ebay, makes it easier

 

[Markp]

Talk to some of the industry partners they will walk you thru the process, I would get a dedicated upper for the SBR, not just the barrel that way you can switch out uppers for whatever your doing, I suggest a trust, get will maker from Ebay, makes it easier

Yes Definitely a dedicated upper!

 

[Mega]

12" barrel with an 11" hand guard...
Optimum... but I'm not sure that the budget can handle it.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=100

 

[snavematt]

12" barrel with an 11" hand guard...
Optimum... but I'm not sure that the budget can handle it.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=100

good thing it takes months to get the paperwork back from the ATF, so you have time to save

 

[Mega]

good thing it takes months to get the paperwork back from the ATF, so you have time to save

Good point.

 

[midcountyg]

With regard to reliability, my 7.5" upper had ran flawless from day one. I purchased it from Model 1 Sales, it is chrome lined and floated but otherwise nothing special.

Mark

Careful on the Model 1, and other less expensive, uppers for this application. When you put the suppressor on your short barrel gun it will make the bolt carrier move extremely fast. You will most likely have to upgrade your extractor spring and ejector/spring. Make sure you have a good quality bolt/carrier in it, and I prefer the hydraulic buffer to help slow it back down. If you insist on going the Model 1 route, get it with out the bolt and carrier. Then either use your existing bolt and carrier or purchase on made by Rock River, Bushmaster, ect. Someone who builds higher quality parts. A bolt carrier failure can be deadly.

 

[JeepDriver]

My new years resolution is to do the paperwork to turn my 16" carbine into a ~12" SBR.

The paperwork is confusing enough... When does it get filed? Before the build, or after?
Which forms are needed for each item? Is a trust needed?

ATF Form 1 is needed to register a SBR. A Trust is not needed, and for one or two items isn't really not nessary. Only if you end up with a dozen or so items would I bother. I did a trust only becasue I knew I was going to end up with a bunch of transfers. I'm on #14 and have 2 more in mind already. ATF is having all trust reviewed be a lawyer currently. The time advantage appears to be gone at this point.

Now to the SBR...

In my research, it seems that the 12 to 12.5" barrels are the most reliable. Would that be a correct assumption?
Since the barrel will be replaced, do I stick with a carbine length gas system, or will a 12.5" allow for a mid-length, and greater reliability?

The 12.5" are rumored to be the most reliable. But there are plenty of 10.5 & 11.5" guns out there that run just fine. For a SBR I would stick with a carbine length gas system. You can do mid length on a 14.5" not sure on a 12.5" I guess it would work, not sure if anyone makes one though.

Buy once, cry once on the upper. Don't cheap out. Look at Noveske or BCM.

The gun has a set of 7" MI free float rails on it, but I'd like the rails to cover as much of the barrel as is practical. What length hand guard on a 12.5" barrel? 10"?

I have a 10" on my 11.5" gun. If DD made an 11" rail I would have bought it.

Obviously a low profile gas block will be needed. I'm leaning towards a LaRue along with a LaRue quad railed hand guard.

I like DD and LaRue equally. That one is just personal preference

On to the can...

Ops Inc? SWR? Another brand?

Yes. Plus Gem Tech and Yankee Hill. All will work pretty much equally well, it comes down to mounting system and price.

This is the SPR that the can will also see duty on.

Since this can will also see occasional duty on the precision Zimmerman .22, how critical is a cleanable can, since the .22 is allegedly 'dirtier'?

Skip using a 5.56 can on a 22. Buy a dedicated 22 can. 22's will lead up, it builds up in the baffels. When you fire 5.56 through it the heat the 5.56 creates will melt that lead, possible causing a baffel strike or worse.

How about a quick-mount brake for the can? I'm not so sure that I want to deal with possibly buggering up the threads on my precision barrels.

All suppressor manufacturers have some sort of QD mount. No nead to touch the threads on the barrel itself after installing the mount.

Lots of questions, I know...

Cheers !

 

[Markp]

Careful on the Model 1, and other less expensive, uppers for this application. When you put the suppressor on your short barrel gun it will make the bolt carrier move extremely fast. You will most likely have to upgrade your extractor spring and ejector/spring. Make sure you have a good quality bolt/carrier in it, and I prefer the hydraulic buffer to help slow it back down. If you insist on going the Model 1 route, get it with out the bolt and carrier. Then either use your existing bolt and carrier or purchase on made by Rock River, Bushmaster, ect. Someone who builds higher quality parts. A bolt carrier failure can be deadly.

.

Thanks for the heads up.

In what way are the model 1 sales bolts inferior, any links or info would be appreciated, because it works really well unsuppressed.

Mark

 

[smokey]

sell it and buy a bullpup with a 16" barrel for less paperwork and about the same cost with a longer barrel(more velocity)