People in Indiana can legally shoot cops!

[Baccusboy]

This is going to chap some people in the wrong way. I have to say it, though... it will likely make police DOUBLY sure they go to the right house:

http://www.infowars.com/indiana-first-state-to-allow-citizens-to-shoot-law-enforcement-officers-2/

 

[joppaj]

I was wondering when this was going to hit the board... I resigned from the NRA over thier support for this.

 

[jashu360]

i think it is a good thing, LEO should be accountable for their actions as well. why should an innocent law abiding citizen have to worry about making a decision to defend his family and himself or hesitate because it might be a cop and end up dead because he gave an intruder a second chance because he was worried it might be a cop invading the wrong house

 

[Safetech]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I think it's a stupid law that will give some idiots (what they think is) carte blanche to shoot any cop coming through their door.

OTOH - How many cops have screwed up and killed an innocent person and pretty much gotten away with - other than just losing their job - or maybe only a suspension or other "disciplinary action" - and no criminal prosecution what so ever, because they were "doing their duty".

I understand that the police "have a tough job". But people are getting tired of the $#!+ that some of them are getting away with.

If I can go to jail for shooting someone "pulling a cell phone" on me, or someone threatening me with no more than a broom, than so should anyone else, whether he/she has a badge or not.

AFAIC - it should be equal standards.

That being said......

 

[WeaponsCollector]

I blame the Indiana Supreme Court for this stupidity, their ruling clearly violated the 4th amendment making a law like this possible in the first place.
Often bad policies and laws are what's putting officers in harm's way, that's why more cops are being killed today when the FBI says overall violent crime and murder rates keep going down around the country.
It doesn't help police officers to tell them they can invade people's homes without a warrant, and then to say people can shoot the officers who are illegally invading their homes makes it even more dangerous for the police AND for citizens.
The 4th amendment is what needs to be defended in Indiana and that can only be done by reversing the bad court decision AND getting rid of the "shoot cops" law that was born from the bad court decision.

 

[MDFF2008]

I don't agree with this law. I think that some cops do make bad decisions and should probably be punished more than they are; but I think this law could have some very negative consequences for the pro 2A movement.

 

[Auckland]

It doesn't help police officers to tell them they can invade people's homes without a warrant, and then to say people can shoot the officers who are illegally invading their homes makes it even more dangerous for the police AND for citizens.

I think this would make them check the address twice. Warrant or not.

 

[HardHatMan]

Wow. From one extreme to the other.

 

[Silverlode]

I was wondering when this was going to hit the board... I resigned from the NRA over thier support for this.

The way I understand this is citizens can shoot government agents/employees who unlawfully enter their homes. Why is this a bad thing? I'm not trying to pick a fight I am really curious why reasonable people would be against this. Am I missing something?

Edit: I have read about this from a couple of sources and they both appeared to be spinning the story for or against, so it's hard to gauge when you think you are only hearing half the story.

 

[Redcobra]

My dogs shoot back.

 

[MDFF2008]

Laws like this create interesting responses among public service agencies. I'd bet there are fire departments in that jurisdiction that changed their directives to preclude entering burning houses to wake people up and get them out in the middle of the night. Don't believe me? Call an ambulance under even slightly suspicious circumstances and the first person to make entry will always be a police officer. The ambulance will "stage" a block away until they get the all clear. If there is any chance a F/R call will go bad, the police go in first. Now the process will just be that much slower. What's more likely, a raid by a psycho SWAT team hellbent on Constitutional mayhem or your elderly parent that lay untreated and dying after calling 911 but unable to speak? You decide.

This.

Brain damage occurs quick; and in some cases, the time needed to wait for the police to clear can be the difference between life and death.

What about "Fleeing Felon" exception? What about a real case of good faith bad information?

I think that they could have easily increased police accountability without giving carte blanche to shoot public servants.

 

[Pushrod]

I believe, in those circumstances where a homeowner is under the impression that a home invasion is occuring and fires on the intruders and it turns out to be police, that the homeowner shouldn't be charged. If the homeowner knowingly fires on police, even if the police have the wrong address, the homeowner should be charged accordingly.

I don't know if that is how this law is written or not.

 

[randyho]

I was wondering when this was going to hit the board... I resigned from the NRA over thier support for this.

I can completely understand that position. This was, according to a few tidbits I've read, a response to Indiana's district court running rough-shod over the 4th amendment.

Assuming that is the case, I still have a hard time imagining there isn't a better way to go about reigning the court in. There's got to me more to this than what I've been able to dig up so far.

No knocks just went from potentially a bad idea to real stupid, from an officer safety perspective.

 

[Half-cocked]

The Indiana Supreme Court is ultimately to blame for this, by overruling the Constitution (and common sense) and ruling that homeowners had no right to defend themselves against police illegally entering their homes. The very sort of abuse of power that triggered our revolution, and led to the creation of the Fourth Amendment, in the first place.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways - you can't have freedom, AND give government the authority to ignore fundamental rights each and every time it "seems like a good idea".

 

[hvymax]

Unfortunately a wreckless disregard for collateral damage to civvies and their rights has led to this. I think it is time to rethink this enforcer class thing and just get back to keeping the peace.

 

[Kman]

I believe, in those circumstances where a homeowner is under the impression that a home invasion is occuring and fires on the intruders and it turns out to be police, that the homeowner shouldn't be charged. If the homeowner knowingly fires on police, even if the police have the wrong address, the homeowner should be charged accordingly.

I don't know if that is how this law is written or not.

Agreed.
I am not a criminal and no criminal activities go on in my home. If unidentified people invade my home, I would assume they are the criminals.

 

[HappyCamper]

If someone enters your property UNLAWFULLY it shouldn't matter who that is, LEO or not. Why should public servants have special exclusions?

If Indiana allows you to shoot someone who unlawfully enters your house it shouldn't matter who committed the CRIME.

 

[Inigoes]

The Indiana Supreme Court is ultimately to blame for this, by overruling the Constitution (and common sense) and ruling that homeowners had no right to defend themselves against police illegally entering their homes. The very sort of abuse of power that triggered our revolution, and led to the creation of the Fourth Amendment, in the first place.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways - you can't have freedom, AND give government the authority to ignore fundamental rights each and every time it "seems like a good idea".

This!

 

[G O B]

^^^^ Police have no "right" to kick in doors without a warrant. A VALID warrant.
There used to be an idea of 'color of law'. As long as LEO was working within the law his actions are insulated from legal consequences. However, once the LEO violates the law, he is no longer LEO, just another criminal.

 

[Silverlode]

What's more likely, a raid by a psycho SWAT team hellbent on Constitutional mayhem or your elderly parent that lay untreated and dying after calling 911 but unable to speak? You decide.

Well, my father in law's house was raided just last fall, right here in MD. I wouldn't say they were a psycho swat team, but they definitely F'd up and went to the wrong house. It could have turned out very badly. He was having a beer with a couple of guys he lets hunt his property. It was only a few minutes earlier the guys stowed their shotguns in their trucks at the end of the day hunting. If they had come through the door a bit earlier and a couple guys are standing there with shotguns, what then? If it had been the Friday night a week earlier, my two little kids would have been in the house and I would have been sincerely pissed.

After realizing they F'd up, they regrouped and raided the house next door. To my knowledge, there was absolutely no reason to show the kind of force they did. It was just some tool living in his parents basement and printing counterfeit money. It wasn't like they had a perimeter gaurded by rotweillers and armed gaurds. They could have arrested this moron at 7-11 and then strolled into the house at their leisure.

I think the take away is that govt agencies are getting way to gung ho with these raids, at least from my perspective. It really isn't the fault of the guy on the ground, it sucks that he would get shot trying to do good, but how would you respond if a guy with a shotgun kicked in your door?

And out of curiosity, who does SWAT type raids for the Secret Service? I know the guys running the show were Secret service, but do they employ local PDs for help?