Penalty For Unauthorized Carry?

[esqappellate]

Transporting a firearm between states should be subject to federal regs and free of state regs. The idea of stopping at borders and rearranging things are maddening. The NRA at one point wanted to support a "shall issue" law that would be federal. Even some conservatives didn't like the idea of the feds telling the states what laws they should have -- and at the time I could see their point. (It's easy to see how such a law could go south with a few federal votes on something like that.) After living in Maryland, though, it's hard to see how things could get worse.

I think now I could support such a law. But they should have federal law for transport between states. That's what the federal government is for, right? Especially since cops can pretty much search your car anytime they want, right?? I recently talked to an old girlfriend of mine and she said she got pulled over and searched.

“For what?" I asked.

“I got pulled over for speeding," she said. “And they asked me if they could search my car."

“Why didn't you say no?"

“I don't know," she said. “I didn't have anything to hide."

Well, knowing this woman's daughter, I could think of a few reasons. (I know a cop in Phoenix who pulled an old fellow over and they asked him the same question. Under the car seat they found an old Raven .25 pistol with no ammo and no magazine. And they arrested the poor guy! Turns out it belonged to a friend of his son's, and instead of just confiscating the gun or putting it in the trunk, which I would have done, they took him in and booked him like some criminal!) At a time when cops need all the friends they can get, they do this!

Anyway, they searched my friend's car, wrote her a ticket and left. They didn't even give her a break for letting them do the search!

(What would YOU say if they asked you?) Sure they probably could have done the search anyway, but it would have been under protest had it been me. We live in sick times and with civil forfeiture on the rise, cops are rapidly becoming the enemy of freedom instead of the protector!

NEVER, EVER, CONSENT TO A SEARCH.

 

[redeemed.man]

NEVER, EVER, CONSENT TO A SEARCH.

 

[Blaster229]

But what if she's hot and it's a body cavity search?

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[Cold Steel]

Speeding is not Probable Cause for a search of your vehicle. You are within ayour rights to decline a search. Let the cops get a warrant if they think they have PC.

I told her to respectfully decline. I believe everyone should respectfully decline. As i said earlier, civil asset forfeitures are up, which has finally caused the federal government to crack down. According to Reuters:

On the Federal level, in an effort to combat illegal drugs, Congress passed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which allows the Federal government to seize property and assets from individuals suspected of criminal activity. Civil Asset Forfeiture was codified in 18 U.S. 981 et seq. These statutes allow the government to take cash, cars, homes and other property suspected of being involved in criminal activity. Unlike criminal forfeiture, with civil forfeiture, the property owner doesn’t have to be charged with, let alone convicted of, a crime to permanently lose his property. The Attorney General, the Secretary of the Treasury or the Postal Service to create a working partnership with individual State law enforcement agencies to carry out the civil asset forfeitures in turn for equitable sharing.

This led to the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) Equitable Sharing program where the DOJ partners with local law enforcement agencies to share in the assets collected. The local law enforcement agency that seized the assets would receive upwards of 80% of the proceeds if it seizes property for the Federal government. In the last decade, Federal forfeiture initiatives like the Equitable Sharing program brought in nearly $28 billion according to a Department of Justice inspector general’s report. This program allowed local law enforcement agencies to bypass any State specific statutory framework. (Emphasis mine)

The crackdown is good news seeing that Jeff Sessions was an advocate of this practice and expanded the program when he was appointed. I'm no fan of Eric Holder, but he at least put restrictions on the program and in my view it clearly violates due process.

.......... Video » Civil Property Forfeiture

Under this travesty of justice, a cop can ask you if you have any money (or firearms) in the car. If you say yes they can compel you to produce it and if you say no, they can seize it if they subsequently search your car! It's hard to believe this can happen in this country. If a cop asks you if you have any large amounts of money in your car (or guns), can I refuse to answer? What are one's rights when pulled over? I know you can refuse a search, but can you refuse to answer if asked if you have any guns or money?

 

[redeemed.man]

I told her to respectfully decline. I believe everyone should respectfully decline. As i said earlier, civil asset forfeitures are up, which has finally caused the federal government to crack down. According to Reuters:


The crackdown is good news seeing that Jeff Sessions was an advocate of this practice and expanded the program when he was appointed. I'm no fan of Eric Holder, but he at least put restrictions on the program and in my view it clearly violates due process.

.......... Video » Civil Property Forfeiture

Under this travesty of justice, a cop can ask you if you have any money (or firearms) in the car. If you say yes they can compel you to produce it and if you say no, they can seize it if they subsequently search your car! It's hard to believe this can happen in this country. If a cop asks you if you have any large amounts of money in your car (or guns), can I refuse to answer? What are one's rights when pulled over? I know you can refuse a search, but can you refuse to answer if asked if you have any guns or money?

"You'll need to ask my lawyer those questions sir as I won't be answering them on the advice of counsel."

 

[esqappellate]

I told her to respectfully decline. I believe everyone should respectfully decline. As i said earlier, civil asset forfeitures are up, which has finally caused the federal government to crack down. According to Reuters:


The crackdown is good news seeing that Jeff Sessions was an advocate of this practice and expanded the program when he was appointed. I'm no fan of Eric Holder, but he at least put restrictions on the program and in my view it clearly violates due process.

.......... Video » Civil Property Forfeiture

Under this travesty of justice, a cop can ask you if you have any money (or firearms) in the car. If you say yes they can compel you to produce it and if you say no, they can seize it if they subsequently search your car! It's hard to believe this can happen in this country. If a cop asks you if you have any large amounts of money in your car (or guns), can I refuse to answer? What are one's rights when pulled over? I know you can refuse a search, but can you refuse to answer if asked if you have any guns or money?

You are *never* required to talk to the police. NOr are you required to respond to their questions. EG: Q: Do you have guns in your car? A. Officer, I would like to go home, am I free to leave? Repeat. IF he says no, then it becomes a de facto arrest. Assert expressly your 5th Amendment right to silence and 6th Amendment right to counsel.

 

[redeemed.man]

You are *never* required to talk to the police. NOr are you required to respond to their questions. EG: Q: Do you have guns in your car? A. Officer, I would like to go home, am I free to leave? Repeat. IF he says no, then it becomes a de facto arrest. Assert expressly your 5th Amendment to silence and 6th Amendment right to counsel.

Your knowledge is much appreciated around here!

 

[BradMacc82]

The penalty? Not worth the risk. $2500 in lawyer fees (minimum), 4 charges levied at ya - if it's on your person. If you're lucky, nolle prose on 3, plea to 4th - PBJ. Forfeiture of the sidearm that was on your person.

May beat the rap, but you'll still take the ride. That's how it played out for someone I know quite well.

 

[GrimReaper]

If you are carrying illegally, does it make a difference if the gun is loaded or not?

If a loaded handgun is found in your vehicle, will it have a stiffer penalty then if a unloaded handgun was found?

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[Cold Steel]

Thanks for your replies and observations.

You are *never* required to talk to the police. NOr are you required to respond to their questions. EG: Q: Do you have guns in your car? A. Officer, I would like to go home, am I free to leave? Repeat. IF he says no, then it becomes a de facto arrest. Assert expressly your 5th Amendment right to silence and 6th Amendment right to counsel.

In the video, you'll hear a cop ask a man if he has any large sums of money on him. By invoking the Fifth, I realize a cop cannot cite probable cause (i.e., “he refused to answer the question, leading me to suspect he was carrying a large sum of money, guns, etc."); however, I've heard cops boast that they can justify a search in almost any situation. I'm not an attorney, but what if an officer said, “I thought I heard sounds coming from the trunk," or, “There was a strange odor coming from the car" or “he was acting unusually nervous" or some other contrivance? Or, if the officer says, “I asked him if he had a large amount of money and he declined to answer. Then I [insert excuse] and when he opened the trunk I discovered the money."

Now if an officer manages to compel one to open the trunk and he sees a briefcase or a Xerox box, does that officer have the right to search it?

The penalty? Not worth the risk. $2500 in lawyer fees (minimum), 4 charges levied at ya - if it's on your person. If you're lucky, nolle prose on 3, plea to 4th - PBJ. Forfeiture of the sidearm that was on your person. May beat the rap, but you'll still take the ride. That's how it played out for someone I know quite well.

In the case of the person you know, can you give us any details? I've heard in Baltimore that cops have been known to illegally search people on the street, and in some cases allegedly planting incriminating evidence.

Street searches are easier for cops to justify. “He had a bulge" or, “He kept patting his back waistline." True, it may only be a cell phone, but cops find it easier to justify a street search than a car search.

If you are carrying illegally, does it make a difference if the gun is loaded or not? If a loaded handgun is found in your vehicle, will it have a stiffer penalty than if a unloaded handgun was found?

Makes no difference unless your name happens to be Hillary Clinton.

 

[3paul10]

The penalty is ARREST.

 

[MikeTF]

You are *never* required to talk to the police. NOr are you required to respond to their questions. EG: Q: Do you have guns in your car? A. Officer, I would like to go home, am I free to leave? Repeat. IF he says no, then it becomes a de facto arrest. Assert expressly your 5th Amendment right to silence and 6th Amendment right to counsel.

Thank you! Somewhere, somehow, every parent should be teaching their kids to respond this way in all situations that apply.

 

[redeemed.man]

Thank you! Somewhere, somehow, every parent should be teaching their kids to respond this way in all situations that apply.

Pretty much flies in the face of everything you said in the nurse thread. Contradict yourself much?

Just cooperate, do whatever the cop asks, allow yourself to be falsely arrested because the justice system will take care of it, etc. The nice officer may even allow you to use your own cell phone if your lucky...

Don't challenge the officers authority to unlawfully arrest you, but do challenge his authority to unlawfully search you, right, got it...

 

[MikeTF]

Pretty much flies in the face of everything you said in the nurse thread. Contradict yourself much?

Just cooperate, do whatever the cop asks, allow yourself to be falsely arrested because the justice system will take care of it, etc. The nice officer may even allow you to use your own cell phone if your lucky...

Don't challenge the officers authority to unlawfully arrest you, but do challenge his authority to unlawfully search you, right, got it...

Not at all. This is a different situation entirely. The counselor suggested a civil response. You could ask the kind counselor what a person should do when a police officer says, 'you're under arrest', but that would be off topic.

 

[redeemed.man]

Not at all. This is a different situation entirely. The counselor suggested a civil response.

Gotcha, that nurse was extremely uncivilized.

 

[MikeTF]

Gotcha, that nurse was extremely uncivilized.

Yup!

 

[MikeTF]

But what if she's hot and it's a body cavity search?

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It's cheaper and more likely to happen if you call an escort for that fantasy (I'm just guessing).

 

[beowulf9]

I have a small safe in my truck. (Holds 2 pistols max) It has a keyed lock which will cover you for not having any place outside the cab to store your firearm. \l[/url]

That's a really good idea.

 

[Redcobra]

If I were asked if I had any large sums of money, I would have to say "define large."
Someone driving a beater may have one definition, whereas someone driving a McLaren may have another.

 

[cjroman]

In Maryland, yes. Plenty of states the "no gun signs" have weight of law. If you are carrying in one of those businesses under LEOSA you are in violation and therefore not covered under LEOSA. As such, you may be charged with a concealed carry violation.

LEOSA is a different animal than concealed carry permits. In some area's it is less restrictive, other area's it is more restrictive. One example is the firearm you can carry. What are the restrictions of what type of handgun can be carried in Maryland with a permit? None, right? For LEOSA, you have to pick a revolver or semi auto to qualify with. You can only choose 1 and can only carry that. I can carry a Glock all day in DC, Jersey, NY. If I were to carry a revolver, LEOSA would not cover me and I could be charged with a handgun violation.

Or you could just qualify with both a revolver and semi-auto and cover both...