Is there video of the altercation between Jeff and Pope? I thought it was public at one point. Maybe it was pulled on advice of counsel?
look upthread.
Is there video of the altercation between Jeff and Pope? I thought it was public at one point. Maybe it was pulled on advice of counsel?
Like most roads to hell, it had good intentions, but is absolutely abused.I've been a sort of fence sitter on QI for some time but this might be the one that pushes me to full "hell no".
I've been a sort of fence sitter on QI for some time but this might be the one that pushes me to full "hell no".
The days of QI, Patriot Acts and the like are over for me.Like most roads to hell, it had good intentions, but is absolutely abused.
I had lingering faith in the moral character of some officers and the courts to correct those who lacked the necessary moral fiber as a warning to others. As that has not been the trend, I believe I will be joining the "abolish qi" bandwagon.The days of QI, Patriot Acts and the like are over for me.
Can't trust The Usual Suspects with a stich of power.
The thing is QI is a good idea. But it should be LIMITED qualified immunity. If the actions are unconstitutional or illegal, then showing they didn’t for SURE know what they were doing was wrong should not be the standard for QI. The standard to pierce it is too high.I've been a sort of fence sitter on QI for some time but this might be the one that pushes me to full "hell no".
I thought roughly the same.The thing is QI is a good idea. But it should be LIMITED qualified immunity. If the actions are unconstitutional or illegal, then showing they didn’t for SURE know what they were doing was wrong should not be the standard for QI. The standard to pierce it is too high.
Too many times judges have allowed things like “well nobody sent me a memo that I couldn’t beat a guy on his front porch for refusing to show me their ID. I thought I could demand their ID and they resisted when I tried to arrest them*” to stand for QI.
*resisting being stiffening their arms. And that’s another thing, the standard for resisting arrest is also way too low. If police can show someone attacked them, legit ran, tried to grab their weapon(s), threw things at them, etc. I am 100% on board with a resisting/assault charge. But “stiffening arms” or even jerking their hands away, BS on a criminal charge of resisting. At least based on videos and charging documents, a lot of people get charged with it when a cop gets in to an argument with a person and grabs their arm and the person yanks their arm away. Often times without an officer even saying “I am placing you under arrest, put your hands behind you” or anything else like that.
It gets us the British!?! F that noise!
It gets us the British!?! F that noise!
Bad example. Alex deserved it!
The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.I think you both missed my point, but I don't doubt I'll get a lengthy screed from lazarus (I thought you were dead), and a dancing banana from RFBfromDE)
Luke 8:30 approves of lazarusThe rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.
I didn't miss your point, I thought my reply was funnier than, absolutely, you are totally right!*"
*I do agree with you on what you were implying. Short enough?
It is in fact limited which is why it's called "Qualified Immunity" not "Guaranteed Immunity" and in reality has a fairly low bar with only 2 basic requirements to defeat. Don't confuse a judge's interpretation of events and subsequent ruling as a flaw with QI because it's not. Nothing works correctly if it's not interpreted and applied correctly and that goes from the officer(s) all the way up to the judge in cases that go that far. (I'm not defending incorrect actions of any party regardless of who/what they are and I'm not making a specific observation about this particular case.) I am an absolute hammer about this stuff when serving in a training role be it with new officers or in-service training and tolerate absolutely zero sh!t from an officer who either doesn't get it or refuses to take it seriously and will absolutely pull them from patrol duties now that I'm in a position to do so. With that being said, feel free to cite actual cases and situations you've been professionally involved in rather than "At least based on videos".... It's quality of content not quantity that makes a point.The thing is QI is a good idea. But it should be LIMITED qualified immunity. If the actions are unconstitutional or illegal, then showing they didn’t for SURE know what they were doing was wrong should not be the standard for QI. The standard to pierce it is too high.
Too many times judges have allowed things like “well nobody sent me a memo that I couldn’t beat a guy on his front porch for refusing to show me their ID. I thought I could demand their ID and they resisted when I tried to arrest them*” to stand for QI.
*resisting being stiffening their arms. And that’s another thing, the standard for resisting arrest is also way too low. If police can show someone attacked them, legit ran, tried to grab their weapon(s), threw things at them, etc. I am 100% on board with a resisting/assault charge. But “stiffening arms” or even jerking their hands away, BS on a criminal charge of resisting. At least based on videos and charging documents, a lot of people get charged with it when a cop gets in to an argument with a person and grabs their arm and the person yanks their arm away. Often times without an officer even saying “I am placing you under arrest, put your hands behind you” or anything else like that.