Parking lot "Damsel in Distress" Scenaio

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  • mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    The other day I was in the parking lot of a busy auto parts store alone a busy road. My wife as in the backseat, and a buddy who was with me was sitting in the front seat. I was on one knee checking the fuse box under the dash. It was in the middle of the day.

    All of a sudden, a women, with her arms full of belongings comes running around the corner looking over her shoulder. She sees that I am the only car there and begins to run towards me to say that a guy in a truck (as she point to the where she had come from) is cursing at and hitting her and if I will give her a ride. Before she could finish her sentence I told her to “STAY BACK”, she stopped dead in her tracks. She was standing in front of the door of the auto parts place so I told her to go inside and have them call 911. The whole time expecting someone to come around the corner after her. My wife because of where she was seated had a better angle then I did, yelled to me that she did not see anyone. The women said she did not want that, only a ride. I told her that I could not help her. She then went far out of her way to go around me and disappeared across the parking lot. We never did see the “guy in the truck”.

    The reason I am sharing this is to show how easy it is to become involved in a violent situation when you really are just minding your own business. When I was a cop I saw this same situation play out many times at gas stations. Someone would be approached coming out of the store, or standing at the pumps. The other thing that happens is that they become involved when their attention is drawn to an altercation and get the old “what are you looking at”.

    For any situation to take place three things are necessary-

    Environment
    Scenario
    Actors

    In many cases, like the situations above, through no fault of your own you can quickly end up an actor in a scenario, in an environment not of your choosing.

    When trouble finds you, the first rule of thumb as actor is to remove yourself if possible. If that is not an option, limit your involvement. If those two things fail you need to dedicate yourself to the role.

    So let revisit my parking lot scenario-

    Basically I was stuck, down on one knee, two other people with me, and keys out of the ignition. Would have taken a bit for me to get out of there. I have found it a good habit that when confronted to the front to glance to your rear and vice versa. To tell you the truth I half way expected to see the “guy in the truck” blocking me in a robbery attempt. Luckily this was not the case. But in the instant I was not going anywhere.

    So I ordered her to stay back and redirected her with the option of going into the store and calling 911. As soon as she refused I knew something was up. This effectively took me out of the scenario even though I was currently stuck in the environment.

    Some other points- because she was holding her belongings I could see both of her hands. She showed no signs of injury or abuse. Had she come around the corner with a weapon, or covered in blood (unfortunately something I have also run into), my response would have been very different.

    During the entire (30 second encounter) I always kept my door between us. This provided me with an improvised impact weapon (a favorite) and a physical barrier.
    When we have done this scenario during Force on Force in classes we call it the “Damsel in Distress” and just about every time people are sucked in towards the “victim” leaving behind the cover they brought with them. This is covered in depth during vehicle tactics.

    So next time you are in public and someone rushed towards you keep these things in mind.- George
     

    wilcam47

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 4, 2008
    26,121
    Changed zip code
    9/10 times its a scam as you stated...especially when she didnt want to call 911...most likely wanted to get you around the back and get you get held up or jumped by 1 or more people...You can never be too careful anywhere! Thanks for the post!
    oh and...
    You should have said call 911 on your obama phone...:lol2::lol2:
     

    HarCo2ANewb

    Subibro
    Mar 24, 2011
    5,899
    Elkridge
    I had a situation one time where my wife and I were getting gas around midnight right by our house. While at the pump, I hear a car at the stoplight squeal its tires and speed off down the road. A few seconds later, I start hearing a woman screaming and I mean screaming. I actually remember being really pissed off that was all she was doing, just screaming, no information, nothing to make me feel like she was anything but crazy.

    I heard her go up to the house next to the station, banging on the door and noticed they didn't answer and knew the gas station was the next place she was going. By this time, a small crowd had gathered so when she starting coming my way, I had already finished the pump early, returned to the truck and started it up. When she looked towards me I just pointed towards the onlookers who were on foot and got out of dodge. Turns out it was a guy she was "familiar" with who had kidnapped her at knife point and when she tried to jump out of the car, that was when he hit the gas and grabbed and dragged her along the road for a bit. I have played out how I handled the situation constantly and every time I know that I did the right thing and I would never do anything differently.

    An article about the incident
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,443
    Carroll County
    Thanks George.

    I'm always interested in this sort of information.

    It reminds me of the ploy in which the hysterical woman runs up and thrusts a baby into the arms of the intended victim. Remember that one?
     

    wilcam47

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 4, 2008
    26,121
    Changed zip code
    Well done George!

    Good lesson for everyone!

    Stay in condition yellow and be aware of your enviroment!

    sad I think this in my mind all the time! Good thing is I live where I can concealed carry or open carry...better to be on guard then off...but not paranoid...lol its a fine line:innocent0
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,946
    Ok time to be that guy again.......

    My sole job right now with my department is robberies. 75% of all robberies are force and violence/strong arm (whatever you want to call it). The other 20% are stick up boys robbing drug dealers and 5% is random armed robberies.

    I think your a little over cautious in your behavior. I don't remember if its u or Tom that is a combat medic but a lot of fatal wounds don't bleed. What if that woman had been stabbed? Shot? I went to the scene of a shooting the other day and the man had a 40 lodged in his chest with no blood.

    I COMPLETLY understand being cautious especially since your a former LEO, to the best of my knowledge but the chances you were about to be robbed were around 1%. I hate to use family but it hits closer to home so I'm going for it. What if that was your wife in dire need of a large mans assistance?

    I hate to sound rude but I equate your thought process to ban guns because they are crime tools. I make that correlation because u are using a very small minority to justify your actions such as our law makers are using right now.

    I understand this isn't the 40s anymore where helping a fellow man for nothing in return but the satisfaction of knowing you did what was right but what you just posted has me believing you lost faith in humanity and by that token if you ever get a headache don't take an aspirin who knows what kind of crazy employees Johnson and Johnson employ. Don't turn your house lights on electricity has been known to start house fires.

    Maybe I just value human life more than most.....I dunno.

    I can appreciate the "be aware" aspect of your story but we are creating this be scared in the world you live in attitude that isn't necessary.
     

    Tom Perroni

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 26, 2009
    1,197
    Virginia
    Ok time to be that guy again.......

    My sole job right now with my department is robberies. 75% of all robberies are force and violence/strong arm (whatever you want to call it). The other 20% are stick up boys robbing drug dealers and 5% is random armed robberies.

    I think your a little over cautious in your behavior. I don't remember if its u or Tom that is a combat medic but a lot of fatal wounds don't bleed. What if that woman had been stabbed? Shot? I went to the scene of a shooting the other day and the man had a 40 lodged in his chest with no blood.

    I COMPLETLY understand being cautious especially since your a former LEO, to the best of my knowledge but the chances you were about to be robbed were around 1%. I hate to use family but it hits closer to home so I'm going for it. What if that was your wife in dire need of a large mans assistance?

    I hate to sound rude but I equate your thought process to ban guns because they are crime tools. I make that correlation because u are using a very small minority to justify your actions such as our law makers are using right now.

    I understand this isn't the 40s anymore where helping a fellow man for nothing in return but the satisfaction of knowing you did what was right but what you just posted has me believing you lost faith in humanity and by that token if you ever get a headache don't take an aspirin who knows what kind of crazy employees Johnson and Johnson employ. Don't turn your house lights on electricity has been known to start house fires.

    Maybe I just value human life more than most.....I dunno.

    I can appreciate the "be aware" aspect of your story but we are creating this be scared in the world you live in attitude that isn't necessary.

    I don't think you are that guy!

    We should discuss this professionally we all have different ideas and all 3 of us has worked the street as a cop!

    I'm a current Medic & Police Officer! The problem as I see it is that most instructors today teach skills & tactics and NOT combat mindset. We should all be in condition yellow 99% of the time but we still need to live our lives. Most here will never have to make that split second decision even if they carry concealed in Maryland everyday!

    The triad for training should be Mindset, skills, tactics in that order....

    However I also agree with George you need to be vigilant …..if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ….its a duck. The fact that she walked away and did not want to call the police is very telling to me….We will never know what the motive was. However George and his family went home safe and that my friend is goal #1 for everyone especially you and I as police officers. It makes no difference how it happened that fact that it did is the key!

    I can’t speak for George but I think his goal was to educate people to just be aware and not get sucked in.

    The most important weapon we have is the brain…..most don’t use it!
     

    CrazySanMan

    2013'er
    Mar 4, 2013
    11,390
    Colorful Colorado
    Excellent post.

    When I joined the Navy I spent a little over a year in Great Lakes, which is northern Chicago. I would see guys from small towns in the midwest and west get lured into things like this all the time.

    Here's one incident that comes to mind. One night we were walking down a street in some questionable Chicago neighborhood when we went around a corner and a payphone next to us rang. One of the guys, I think he was from Oklahoma, picked it up. "Hey guys" he said, "It's a lady and she says she's horny!". He started talking to her. I thought something was up so I looked around the corner as he was talking on the phone and saw three guys walking fast toward us who didn't look like they just left a boy scout meeting. I grabbed the guy on the phone and got him out of there. This was in the early 90's, before cell phones. Apparently the woman on the phone was in one of the apartment windows around us where she could watch the phone and she called it when we were next to it to distract us. Then she signaled the thugs to go get us at the phone. Naive young squids would fall for all kinds of tricks like that. They get mugged or worse every day in Chicago.
     
    Feb 11, 2012
    588
    Eden, MD
    Ok time to be that guy again.......

    My sole job right now with my department is robberies. 75% of all robberies are force and violence/strong arm (whatever you want to call it). The other 20% are stick up boys robbing drug dealers and 5% is random armed robberies.

    I think your a little over cautious in your behavior. I don't remember if its u or Tom that is a combat medic but a lot of fatal wounds don't bleed. What if that woman had been stabbed? Shot? I went to the scene of a shooting the other day and the man had a 40 lodged in his chest with no blood.

    I COMPLETLY understand being cautious especially since your a former LEO, to the best of my knowledge but the chances you were about to be robbed were around 1%. I hate to use family but it hits closer to home so I'm going for it. What if that was your wife in dire need of a large mans assistance?

    I hate to sound rude but I equate your thought process to ban guns because they are crime tools. I make that correlation because u are using a very small minority to justify your actions such as our law makers are using right now.

    I understand this isn't the 40s anymore where helping a fellow man for nothing in return but the satisfaction of knowing you did what was right but what you just posted has me believing you lost faith in humanity and by that token if you ever get a headache don't take an aspirin who knows what kind of crazy employees Johnson and Johnson employ. Don't turn your house lights on electricity has been known to start house fires.

    Maybe I just value human life more than most.....I dunno.

    I can appreciate the "be aware" aspect of your story but we are creating this be scared in the world you live in attitude that isn't necessary.


    If she was really in danger then why did she NOT go inside the auto parts store and have them call 911. I say the op had every reason to be cautious.
     

    Jackson923

    Hell Yeah!
    Jan 25, 2008
    1,942
    Harford Co
    Personal opinion was that she was looking for a ride somewhere, I got sucked into this same situation a about 13-14 years ago. I was returning home from a late night softball game and witnessed a lady and two kids running from a 7-11 store on Rt. 40 in Cecil County, she appeared to be stressed and in need. Fearing for the two kids I quickly stopped and asked if they were ok? She asked I could give them a ride and appeared to be disheveled, I agreed thinking that I would drop them off one mile up the road since that was where I was turning off at, she begged me to give her a ride out of my way which ended up being 15 miles, had it not been for the young kids I would have dropped her off in a well lite area and went on my way home. Turns out she only needed a ride and was not in any danger which caused me an extra half hour to my commute home, hindsight I would do it again if I felt someone was in danger but I also see the ops point and like his quick reaction to point to the store for safety/cover.
     

    d_c

    Active Member
    Jul 7, 2009
    470
    Texas
    I hate to use family but it hits closer to home so I'm going for it. What if that was your wife in dire need of a large mans assistance?

    I only want to point out that his wife was present and getting involved in a situation that had the potential to escalate may well have put her in danger. If I'm out with my family they are my number one responsibility, bar none. I understand that others may choose to make a different call.

    George, I'm curious if your immediate or follow-up response would have been any different if you were alone?

    From the comfort of the armchair, I'd like to think I would have made the same choice. Even in the absence of other obligations (like family) I'd rather be following the person in distress into the store to administer aid while the employees dial 911 and keep an eye out versus trying to render aid while maintaining situational awareness in the middle of a parking lot.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,946
    If she was really in danger then why did she NOT go inside the auto parts store and have them call 911. I say the op had every reason to be cautious.

    In literally 99% of domestic situations no matter how volatile the victim doesn't want the police involved. Most of the domestics I used to run were called in by neighbors. We took baby daddy out while the victim was screaming don't take him.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,946
    I don't think you are that guy!

    We should discuss this professionally we all have different ideas and all 3 of us has worked the street as a cop!

    I'm a current Medic & Police Officer! The problem as I see it is that most instructors today teach skills & tactics and NOT combat mindset. We should all be in condition yellow 99% of the time but we still need to live our lives. Most here will never have to make that split second decision even if they carry concealed in Maryland everyday!

    The triad for training should be Mindset, skills, tactics in that order....

    However I also agree with George you need to be vigilant …..if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ….its a duck. The fact that she walked away and did not want to call the police is very telling to me….We will never know what the motive was. However George and his family went home safe and that my friend is goal #1 for everyone especially you and I as police officers. It makes no difference how it happened that fact that it did is the key!

    I can’t speak for George but I think his goal was to educate people to just be aware and not get sucked in.

    The most important weapon we have is the brain…..most don’t use it!

    Oh I'm with you and understand. I bolded what you quoted. I fully understand the point of the post and can whole heartedly agree with be vigilant and aware of your surroundings but see my post above this and you and I both know I'm right.
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    If she had been stabbed I figured the only ride she would want was from an ambulance. She was obviously not in medical distress.

    Had I been by myself about the only thing that would have changed is that as she came to the front of my car I would have immediately moved to the rear of my car. I know I would do this because it was my habit during my time on the job. Putting cover and a physical barrier between the threat and me.- George
     

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