+P+ in S&W revolvers

[RonInMD]

I emailed S&W the other day,

I asked:

Hello S&W,

Do you recommend the use of Federal Hydra Shok .38 Special 147gr +P+ in either of these revolvers?:

1. S&W 686 (no dash) with a 2.5" barrel, but with the "M" marking showing the upgrade to this revolver
2. S&W 640-3 .357 magnum / .38 Special

Thank you in advance for your reply,

Ron


Their reply:

Hello, SAAMI does not have pressure rating or specifications for +P+, we do not recommend its use.

“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &

Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates

that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation

does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore

such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated


I'd like to hear about real life situations from others who have used this ammo.

Do you think that this is just a CYA situation on their part?

Thanks,

Ron

 

[joppaj]

No, I think it's sage advice. I mean no disrespect, but if you want that performance, just fire .357. I've never really understood the .38 +p+.

 

[zoostation]

Manufacturers are not going to recommend +P+ ammo as the pressures can vary wildly, it is by definition outside of SAAMI ratings. It could be anything between 11%-40% (or more) overpressure. While I personally wouldn't be worried about shooting reputable factory +P+ in those revolvers you mentioned if I were doing it myself, that is just me, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.

The smallest revolver I can remember shooting +P+ out of was an old Smith aluminum-frame Airweight. We were shooting the old Secret Service 38 Spl. 110gr. Winchester +P+ JHP out of it (this was back in the 80's when that was their standard load). It shot the rounds, but we had to pull the casings out with pliers afterwords.

 

[El_flasko]

I remember a thread similar to this or wrapped into the SW model 10 group buy thread. I ended up buying a bunch of +p stuff and fired some without issue. I'll be paying attention to this thread.

 

[mikec]

No, I think it's sage advice. I mean no disrespect, but if you want that performance, just fire .357. I've never really understood the .38 +p+.

If the stories on the web are true, again, if, the load was created for some PD that allowed their officers to carry S&W Model 13 and 19 guns but then the politicians didn't want their officers to carry such devastatingly nasty rounds as the .357 Magnum... Of course, a 12 gauge with 00 Buck or slugs has how much more muzzle energy?

A number of years back I did get a box of "LEO ONLY!!!" marked Winchester 110 gr +P+ and fired them out of a GP 100. I swear there was more felt recoil than any of the .357 rounds I had fired to that point. At 7 yards, my gun and me were more accurate with the Cor-Bon 110gr .357 rounds I has bought. Those were hot.

 

[mbz300sdl]

I would feel safe firing any .38 in a .357. I have some of the Federal 147 gr HST in .38+P+ and I have fired it out of my Colt trooper .357 and my S&W 64 .38spl with no issues

 

[Zombie_013]

I would feel safe firing any .38 in a .357. I have some of the Federal 147 gr HST in .38+P+ and I have fired it out of my Colt trooper .357 and my S&W 64 .38spl with no issues

That's exactly what I was thinking - you should be ok shooting any .38 in a .357.

 

[smores]

If the stories on the web are true, again, if, the load was created for some PD that allowed their officers to carry S&W Model 13 and 19 guns but then the politicians didn't want their officers to carry such devastatingly nasty rounds as the .357 Magnum... Of course, a 12 gauge with 00 Buck or slugs has how much more muzzle energy?

A number of years back I did get a box of "LEO ONLY!!!" marked Winchester 110 gr +P+ and fired them out of a GP 100. I swear there was more felt recoil than any of the .357 rounds I had fired to that point. At 7 yards, my gun and me were more accurate with the Cor-Bon 110gr .357 rounds I has bought. Those were hot.

I've heard from reliable sources that certain ammunition makers will make +P or +P+ ammo, but do not mark the boxes specially. They send these to departments or LE distributors because of those very restrictions placed by various departments/LE agencies.

As for firing +P+ in a revolver, I personally wouldn't recommend it... While S&Ws are well made, it's still risky shooting something with that much pressure. A blown cylinder (and possibly top strap/frame) is no joke. MAYBE in a .357 it would be ok from time to time... but still without knowing the pressure and the makeup of the steel etc. it's not advisable as far as I'm concerned.

It is known that with full and over-pressure loads, revolvers have a tendency to stretch and warp slightly over time. It doesn't take much to get everything out of whack and ruin a frame, or at the very least need extensive repairs.

 

[august1410]

I don't think I'd fire the +P+ in my Model 27. I feel safe with the good old +P and .357 Magnum rounds. Power is one thing, pressure is another. I'm not rocket scientist when it comes to this stuff, but more pressure doesn't sound too good for my old gun.

 

[El_flasko]

I don't think I'd fire the +P+ in my Model 27. I feel safe with the good old +P and .357 Magnum rounds. Power is one thing, pressure is another. I'm not rocket scientist when it comes to this stuff, but more pressure doesn't sound too good for my old gun.

So your thoughts on +p 38 rounds in a model 10 in 38!?

Thanks Yoda!

 

[august1410]

So your thoughts on +p 38 rounds in a model 10 in 38!?

Thanks Yoda!

Smith and Wesson has gone on record stating that +P will be fine in a gun that has a model number. In effect, this would mean guns manufactured in and after 1957.

In my Model 10, I fired some +P, but not regularly.

As mentioned above, if you are going to shoot +P+, you might as well go with a .357 Magnum.

 

[El_flasko]

Smith and Wesson has gone on record stating that +P will be fine in a gun that has a model number. In effect, this would mean guns manufactured in and after 1957.

In my Model 10, I fired some +P, but not regularly.

As mentioned above, if you are going to shoot +P+, you might as well go with a .357 Magnum.

I gotcha. I bought a model 10 in the group buy, the later ran into a bulk +p 38 buy and have shot "some." it worked out ok thus far...

 

[Jerry M]

When in the State Police we Shot +P+ in model 10s, model 36's and Colt Official Police's all were .38 Special. Also shot ie from the model 13.

Good Luck

Jerry