Opinion video lockers vs safes

[jeffie7]

After watching that video I also pulled up some cutting into safe videos and it looks like it's really not that hard to do. I guess what it comes down to is if someone has a plan and truely wants something they will find a way. A random break in IMO won't get into either one if they are bolted down but a targeted home with a safe in mind won't have a chance regardless.

Now debating on getting something like the locker in the video above. My main concern is keeping kids safe. I'd also put a fire proof box inside for documents.

Anyone here use a secureit locker or other locker style safe/storage?

 

[Jim M]

Funny, I have the same thing on my mind. Looking for a deal on Friday, and dreading dealing with a 800# or more "safe" to be placed in the house somewhere. Hope to hear some feedback on this from others.

 

[timber387]

I would like to hear some more opinions on this also. My biggest concern is the fire rating. He does bring up a good point about potentially "cooking" the guns in a safe, but it would take alot longer for that to happen in a safe verses a gun locker.

 

[GoldGunsGirls]

Let's get this out of the way early:

"Gun Safes" are mostly USELESS against any determined attacker. Most gun safes (e.g. Liberty, Stack-On, Cannon, etc) are not even rated as a true safe but a residential security container (RSC). To get a real SAFE costs literally thousands ($3k and up). Buy an RSC to keep opportunist thieves at bay and keep your kids safe. Nothing more. For theft and fire protection, get a good insurance policy. That's it, end of story. Unless you have true heirlooms, outrageously valuable pre-86 MG's, or other true unicorns, there's no real point in getting a safe.

This shows how easy it is to break into an RSC (AKA a common gun safe):

(The good stuff starts at 2:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

 

[lazarus]

Yeah that is the thing. A real safe is going to weigh tons. You are talking probably 3-5" thick walls filled with concrete and litter walls of probably quarter to half inch hardened steel.

The safes you can buy at a reasonable price and weight have walls of 10-13 gauge steel, which is .07-.12" thick probably mild steel. A locker is likely to be 14 gauge steel.

What you get out of a safe over a locker is fire resistance, some amount of water resistance (some are made actually water proof to a couple of feet), a bit more tool resistance and possibly a sealed environment for dehumidification.

A locker someone with a pry bar a hammer and or an axe could likely rip or chop it open in a couple of minutes. A safe is going to be thick enough hand tools really are not going to suffice. You'll need a torch, angle grinder or drill to tackle it and probably several minutes to half an hour depending on what is being used to get in it.

I want to trade up from my 10 gun locker which fits 8 super cramped to a 25-30 gun safe for the fire resistance, space and stop casual theft.

Casual theft to me is a burglar breaking in and spending 10 minutes grabbing stuff or gas a pry bar or something with them.

That to me is where insurance comes in. That and most burglars are going to be more of the snatch and grab type.

I also have kids to keep away from my stuff and I want a combo/electronic lock to keep them away instead of a key (most lockers are keyed). I won't keep guns and ammo locked up together with only a key in the way that the kids could find or take (since I keep one on my key ring)

 

[travistheone]

the secureIT lightweight safes look great.

 

[jeffie7]

Yeah that is the thing. A real safe is going to weigh tons. You are talking probably 3-5" thick walls filled with concrete and litter walls of probably quarter to half inch hardened steel.

The safes you can buy at a reasonable price and weight have walls of 10-13 gauge steel, which is .07-.12" thick probably mild steel. A locker is likely to be 14 gauge steel.

What you get out of a safe over a locker is fire resistance, some amount of water resistance (some are made actually water proof to a couple of feet), a bit more tool resistance and possibly a sealed environment for dehumidification.

A locker someone with a pry bar a hammer and or an axe could likely rip or chop it open in a couple of minutes. A safe is going to be thick enough hand tools really are not going to suffice. You'll need a torch, angle grinder or drill to tackle it and probably several minutes to half an hour depending on what is being used to get in it.

I want to trade up from my 10 gun locker which fits 8 super cramped to a 25-30 gun safe for the fire resistance, space and stop casual theft.

Casual theft to me is a burglar breaking in and spending 10 minutes grabbing stuff or gas a pry bar or something with them.

That to me is where insurance comes in. That and most burglars are going to be more of the snatch and grab type.

I also have kids to keep away from my stuff and I want a combo/electronic lock to keep them away instead of a key (most lockers are keyed). I won't keep guns and ammo locked up together with only a key in the way that the kids could find or take (since I keep one on my key ring)

I watched a video of 2 people using pry bars on what looked to be a legit safe (low end 1k range). I think it comes down to knowledge and time. Took them 10 minutes. They clearly knew what they were doing.

I agree insurance is the best protection anyone can have for the safe keeping of guns.

Now it's a matter of $600 secureit or $150-300 stack on. Their tactical gun cabinets look pretty good. Not secureit good but $200 good.

Edit to add video

 

[Straightbolt]

My gun room is on the 2nd floor and filling it with a bunch of 1,000 # safes is not an option.
Great video and validates my thoughts.

 

[ericoak]

Let's get this out of the way early:

"Gun Safes" are mostly USELESS against any determined attacker. Most gun safes (e.g. Liberty, Stack-On, Cannon, etc) are not even rated as a true safe but a residential security container (RSC). To get a real SAFE costs literally thousands ($3k and up). Buy an RSC to keep opportunist thieves at bay and keep your kids safe. Nothing more. For theft and fire protection, get a good insurance policy. That's it, end of story. Unless you have true heirlooms, outrageously valuable pre-86 MG's, or other true unicorns, there's no real point in getting a safe.

This shows how easy it is to break into an RSC (AKA a common gun safe):

(The good stuff starts at 2:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

Those videos always show the safe tipped over so they can use gravity to pry it open. Without being able to use your body weight it would be much harder.

 

[lazarus]

Those videos always show the safe tipped over so they can use gravity to pry it open. Without being able to use your body weight it would be much harder.

To add, odds are good without being able to add their body weight, they likely would not be able to have pried that open

One their, on their own with most typical gun safes, even the cheaper ones are not likely to be able to pry them open with hand tools if bolted down.

Then to add, if mounted such that only the front of the SAFE is accessible it makes it harder again as the door is usually thicker than the body

The last video of the guy cutting it open mentions 14 gauge still which I mentioned is what most lockers are made out of. Most cheap safes are 13 gauge and most top end are 11 or 10. All of them cut be cut open with an angle grinder, but something like a 14 gauge might take 6-10 minutes to really cut wide open like he showed. A 10 gauge would likely be more like 15-20 minutes.

Short of a 5 ton 2" thick hardened steel safe you can get it open with an angle grinder and enough time.

But let's also be realistic. Probably 90% of burglaries are going to be a quick in and out. Half of what is left they might take some time. The former someone might try to quick break open a locker of it looks vulnerable and if they have a good sized pry bar, it is probably coming open in a couple of minutes even if it isn't tipped over. The next bit they probably don't have power tools and or might not find yours or take the time and noise to try to take an angle grinder to it

I agree most gun safes aren't that break in proof, but they are still a lot more resistant to your average burgler. If they are there knowing what they are after, they are getting in. Some of what matters though is how you mount it and where for adding resistance to break-in.

Looking at different models I am leaning towards the Winchester 26 gun safe. Big enough for my needs for the next few years. Small enough it should fit in the walk in closest planned for my addition. I don't mind a second similar sized safe several years down the road in my basement or garage. Next it is 11ga steel IIRC. A decent fire rating too. It is also only like $700 from tractor supply. I am not trying to stop a determined thief. I am trying to stop a casual burglar, which I don't think my locker would, as well as keep curious kids out and protect my stuff in case of Fire (documents and hard drive will be in an extra brief case fire safe to double up fire resistance).

 

[BigT5g]

If it takes a talented thief 10minutes to open one of these then I don't see the problem. With a good alarm system, the police will be there in 7 at the most. Where I live the police have shown up in as little as 3 mins when our alarm has been set off.
If you don't have a good alarm system then yeah, these safes are useless. I think of mine as 1: a device to delay the thief until the cops arrive, and 2: to secure stuff out of the reach of children.

 

[thai]

If it takes a talented thief 10minutes to open one of these then I don't see the problem. With a good alarm system, the police will be there in 7 at the most. Where I live the police have shown up in as little as 3 mins when our alarm has been set off.
If you don't have a good alarm system then yeah, these safes are useless. I think of mine as 1: a device to delay the thief until the cops arrive, and 2: to secure stuff out of the reach of children.

My kids are always triggering our alarm system. 1 to 2 times a year. I live just south of Olney in Montgomery County. Cops always takes 20 to 30 minutes to respond. You are very fortunate for a 7 minute response time.

 

[Jim M]

After hearing the arguments, I've decided to go with an 11 gauge USA made "safe" from Liberty via Cabela's. http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...&type=product&MDK=dynbanP_SL&MDC=cat104730480

Should take 10-15 minutes to access once it's placed in my home properly (bolted down, limited access to prying points). Hopefully the police arrive by that time, and if not, insurance will cover the financial loss, but not the sentimental loss.

OP, I hope your search has gone well.

 

[vetogunban]

Has anyone tried one of the gun safe alarms that go inside the safe and notify you if certain events occur - motion, loud noise, heat, humidity, etc.?

 

[outrider58]

Most residential safes and strong boxes are made to keep honest people out. There is almost nothing that will keep a strongly determined person out. Google search ATM thefts.

 

[j_h_smith]

Let's get this out of the way early:

This shows how easy it is to break into an RSC (AKA a common gun safe):

(The good stuff starts at 2:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

This video is so bogus. How many RSC do you know of that are sitting in the middle of a room where you can just push it over unto it's back? Let's say you get it on it's back. Now are you to believe that you are going to able to use a 6ft long bar like they did? I don't know about you, but I don't keep my RSC/safes in the middle of a warehouse. My safes are in a small room and are bolted down to concrete floors. 2 of the safes are positioned in a way that you can't get a crowbar into the door edge, because the door edge is up against another wall.

Sure, no safe is foolproof, but I seriously doubt that anyone would be able to get into my safes in that amount of time. They'd probably be better off bringing a small torch and just burning a hole in the RSC/safes.

I feel my firearms are safe because the RSC/Safe is just one layer of protection. I double dog dare them to think they'd get in and out without dealing with other issues too.

Did you know that Halon removes all oxygen from a room? That's why it's so good for fire suppression, and it's a pretty good burglary deterrent too.

I'm not saying I have a Halon system... I'm just saying...

 

[j_h_smith]

The video with the angle grinder is also bogus. How many smoke alarms are going to go off with that? There's no way he's going to do that without my entire house alarm system going off. Sure, set up a perfect scenario and make a video. Take this same attempt into someone's house and I bet it's no where near that easy.

 

[Baccusboy]

There was a guy in Iowa who had a cheap stackon container in the house, which he kept his BB guns in (he had a BB backstop set up in the basement). He had a a few handguns, but what he did was hang them on a wire, from a nail, down between a wall in the 2x4 gap between the drywall and the ceiling.

Someone broke in, stole some stuff from his house, and ripped his Stackon down from the wall mount, and pried it open just enough to see that there wasn't much worth bothering with inside.

The guns in the wall were left unharmed.

 

[lazarus]

There was a guy in Iowa who had a cheap stackon container in the house, which he kept his BB guns in (he had a BB backstop set up in the basement). He had a a few handguns, but what he did was hang them on a wire, from a nail, down between a wall in the 2x4 gap between the drywall and the ceiling.

Someone broke in, stole some stuff from his house, and ripped his Stackon down from the wall mount, and pried it open just enough to see that there wasn't much worth bothering with inside.

The guns in the wall were left unharmed.

Not exactly kid or fire proof/resistant though. Which may not have mattered to him.

My plan is, I have an addition to put on my house in the spring. The master suite is going to have two closests. A 5x2 for me and a 6x8 walk-in for my wife. The walk in I am planning on a 24-30 gun safe in the back corner where I'll keep most of my guns. I also plan on a nice small 5-8 gun safe tucked in a totally out of the way place that is going to be hard to find with anything of real sentimental value. Both decent quality, if not $3000+ safes. If you really want to spend a possible hour or two searching for the second one that is going to have the spare hard drive in a separate fire proof container and the couple of really important guns in it, to for it. Then good luck actually getting in to it. If they can, well no amount of hiding anything would have worked.

Depending on what comes down the pike with future gun laws in maryland/US I may get or have a spare lower that never gets built REALLY tucked away somewhere obscure just in case someone actually does get everything else. I mean, if they want to steal every single thing in my house, including something like a box of old dishware or a box of childhood momentos, or find it tucked in the attic insulation then maybe they'll get that as well.

Last thing I need is to find out someone steals everything if a ban is in place and I can't ever build an AR-15 again or something.

 

[traveller]

My plan is, I have an addition to put on my house in the spring. The master suite is going to have two closests. A 5x2 for me and a 6x8 walk-in for my wife. The walk in I am planning on a 24-30 gun safe in the back corner where I'll keep most of my guns.

Tell whomever stamps the plans that this is what you are planning to do so he can engineer that closet accordingly (unless its on a slab).

And for anything that has valiue, buy a real safe, TL15 or better.