Old Jukar .45 Caliber Rifle and overthinking BP newbie questions

[guzma393]

Coincidentally, this forum post from modernmuzzleloader forums explains a similar situation that I am facing and is an excellent baseline on what to expect. In a nutshell, I found an old jukar .45 caliber rifle in an to be demo-ed abandoned house. At a glance it looked functional, minor surface rust, no cracks, action works, etc. but held off on attempting to restore it due to limited knowledge about black powder shooting, although I have experience with modern 209 shotgun primer in line muzzleloaders.

I feel like it's finally time to tackle this project. There isn't that much information on the rifle aside from the barrel stamping saying "jukar 45 cal, BP only" no model #, but there appears to be a serial #. I've been googling alot about this rifle, and they seem common enough.

Being a percussion cap, and ball muzzleloader newbie, I'm on a scavenger hunt for some number 11 caps, bullet molds, patches, black powder, and the best thing, knowledge and wisdom, particularly in potentially making any of these components at in-house. Brain picking questions for the MDS brain trust are listed below. Any insight is welcomed:

1) How would you approach with restoring and inspecting this rifle? My general take on it is disassemble, clean it thoroughly, inspect for clogs, obstructions, cracks, bulging, pitting, corrosion, etc.

2) What muzzleloader accessories do I need to get started? Safe to say that I only have the gun and ramrod only - no volumetric measure, powder horn, etc. and i don't think any of my 209 primed in line muzzleloader accessories apply.

3) If it's all safe to shoot, what would be a good starting load? As of now, I assessed Bass pro and they got Pyrodex P (similar to FFFg) powder, and number 11 caps available. - I know Pyrodex P is not the best (sources say some BP loaders avoid the stuff like the plague), but it's what's available local to me. What black powder should I be looking for, and what is considered as "the good stuff" to look for?

4) For those who cast their own lead balls, I was just looking to get a lee double cavity mold in .440" diameter. Is this the appropriate diameter ball to cast and shoot out of a 45 cal rifle?

5) Can you make your own patches or is this something best left bought?

Questions that are a stretch; Probably will get alot of naysayers on the practicality and safety of this, but i'll ask them anyways:

6) Anyone make their own caps? I have been seeing "tap-a-cap" percussion cap makers online, where you can punch out caps out of soda can thick sheet metal. I actually 3d printed one to mess around with the concept. As for priming compound, there's that prime-all stuff that I dabbled with during the primer/ammo shortage, which is h48 priming compound, but I've seen sources of people using German/American made roll caps with a bit of nitro (smokeless powder) fines with great success.

7) Saved this question last - Anyone ventured in making their own blackpowder? Precipitation method (or atleast that is what I think it's called) seems safe and easy to do vs. traditional ball milling - further online sources mention pucking/corning black powder, and grinding and sift sorting the grains. It appears that the selection of wood charcoal dictates the overall performance of the black powder; black willow and buckthorn alder (doubt ill find this locally) being sought after. Interestingly, tree of heaven, aka chinese sumac may be an easily obtained and available source.

I will upload some pics when i get to it, probably not until next week. Only got this one at hand.

 

[MeatGrinder]

Pictures would be nice.

 

[guzma393]

At work, then out of town, right after. Will get some loaded up when I get back. I think i got some on my phone, and will upload what i got, but nothing too detailed.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Cast Boolits Forum
12 Years of homemade black powder posts:

My homemade black powder

Used my homemade black powder in my TC black diamond express today with some boolits sent to me by someone on the site. The powder performed really well with both 450gr .505 and .245gr power belts. The recoil was a little lighter than commercial powder but it had a nice crack to it. Much less...

castboolits.gunloads.com

And somewhere in there you will find my post recommending this source of Information:

black powder menu

A search on Youtube for Black Powder Making will turn up lots of videos.

If you want to densify your powder by making pucks Amazon sells dies that work, for example:
Amazon product ASIN B0BX5W5QSW
A couple of other references:
Amazon product ASIN 0879472367

Amazon.com : Black Powder

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

 

[guzma393]

Cast Boolits Forum
12 Years of homemade black powder posts:

My homemade black powder

Used my homemade black powder in my TC black diamond express today with some boolits sent to me by someone on the site. The powder performed really well with both 450gr .505 and .245gr power belts. The recoil was a little lighter than commercial powder but it had a nice crack to it. Much less...

castboolits.gunloads.com

And somewhere in there you will find my post recommending this source of Information:

black powder menu

I'm familiar with the CB homemade BP posts, but the other link is a good nugget of info. Thanks! and much appreciated on further info on the pucking dies and books.

Sent from my SM-A136U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Pale Ryder]

First thing to do is make sure it is not loaded. Easy enough way is once you have a cleaning rod, jigs, patches,and bore butter, remove the nipple. Take some hot soapy water and pour down the barrel. If it immediately comes out the nipple hole your good to go. Proceed with brush and clean with hot soapy water. Rinse with hot water. Dry with some patches, and finally apply a little bore butter to patch and lube barrel. Then you can start with the rest of the journey.

 

[rseymorejr]

An even easier way to make sure it's not loaded is to stick a wooden dowel down the barrel and mark it at the muzzle then lay the dowel along the outside of the barrel with your mark aligned with the muzzle. If the other end of the dowel reaches near to the nipple it's unloaded, if it is well shy of the nipplie it's loaded.

I'd recommend making a trip to Saint Firearms, in Essex, and getting Matt to take a look and see what he thinks. He can also set you up with most everything you might need.

 

[willtill]

Last time I was at Bass Pro in Arundel Mills, they had Remington and CCI No. 11 percussion caps. I see you are in Severn, I am in Hanover, not far from you.

I just got an old TC Arms Hawken .54 cal functioning again myself. I can give you a little assistance sometime this weekend if you like; I have a remote camera that we can look at your bore with, punch the barrel and give you a little confidence with the state of your muzzleloader.

 

[guzma393]

Last time I was at Bass Pro in Arundel Mills, they had Remington and CCI No. 11 percussion caps. I see you are in Severn, I am in Hanover, not far from you.

I just got an old TC Arms Hawken .54 cal functioning again myself. I can give you a little assistance sometime this weekend if you like; I have a remote camera that we can look at your bore with, punch the barrel and give you a little confidence with the state of your muzzleloader.

Thanks willtill, I'll take you up on your offer. I'm out of town for this week but I should be back next weekend. I'll touch base with you till then if you're free.

 

[Melnic]

Guz,
I think I have everything you need to borrow to shoot this and at least get started before you spend more $ on it.
Visual inspection of the bore with a scope is always a good idea.
Some people will make a small scotch bright patch and soak it and scrub to remove any rust flakes. You gott use an undersized jag to do that.
Since I know where you live and where you work I don't think that will be a problem letting you borrow the stuff.
I forgot to check my molds but pretty sure I have different size balls for you to check out.
I'd suggest ball/patch combo that is easy to load to start so you can inspect the patches after you shoot. Yup, after you shoot, on the first cease fire, recover your patches to look at them. The pattern on the patch and any tears will tell you how the patch is sealing and if the bore is tearing the patch or not.
What I'll get for you is (anyone chime in if I forgot something):
Range Rod (never use the wooden one that comes with a ML)
Several sized jags
Cleaning patches
Lubed patches
soft lead balls
Ball Starter
Nipple pick
#11 caps
Powder flask
Powder measure
Ball Puller
Patch puller
Nipple remover Tool
2F real black powder

This should get you started and the amount of stuff you will consume will not be that great on your first outing that I'll miss it.

Post more pics of it and if you bore scope it, post pic of the breech where the hole enters the breech end this will tell me and others what king of breech it has.

 

[John from MD]

I have one of those on my wall, though mine is a flintlock. The ball it takes is a .440 diameter and the patch is .015. 45gns of BP or 40gns will give you good groups at 50 yards if the rifling is not torn up. Buy this light and it will give you a good look at your bore after you clean it. It sits at the bottom so you can see the rifling all the way down.

Amazon product ASIN B087FWH5SJ

 

[Pale Ryder]

An even easier way to make sure it's not loaded is to stick a wooden dowel down the barrel and mark it at the muzzle then lay the dowel along the outside of the barrel with your mark aligned with the muzzle. If the other end of the dowel reaches near to the nipple it's unloaded, if it is well shy of the nipplie it's loaded.

I'd recommend making a trip to Saint Firearms, in Essex, and getting Matt to take a look and see what he thinks. He can also set you up with most everything you might need.

Yes your way is easier.
My way gets the gun clean too.

 

[guzma393]

I finally got the opportunity to work on this thing. Lots of surface rust but bore is still shiny with what appears to be no pitting. Brushed and swabbed the barrel for a good hour and the lands cleaned up nicely, but the grooves still got some surface rust. I assume the surface rust along the grooves will clear out after a couple of cleanings, since the rifle needs to be cleaned after each use anyways.

I proceeded to disassemble the whole rifle, regrease the actions, flush the bore with hot water, purged the bore and breech with compressed air, run a couple of oiled patches along the bore, and reassemble the gun.

It appears to be in shooting condition. I didn't see any heavy or critical corrosion. Breech plug and nipple are clear, and welds along the breech plug appear solid. Anything else I should check for?

 

[John from MD]

Since you appear to be handy, I will give you a tip that will give you faster ignition with a drum type bolster.

Buy a Spitfire type nipple which has the concave base. Install the nipple and mark the side that is adjacent to the flash hole. Make sure to do this with the nipple torqued in and not finger tight. Next remove the nipple and, using a dremel tool, cut a groove through the nipple skirt in the exact spot where the flash hole is. The groove should be about 1/8 in wide and and about the same deep.

This will channel the sparks from the cap and give faster ignition than the traditional nipple.

If you plan on shooting it a lot, I would put a search on Ebay for main springs so you can buy a spare. While the traditions lock may look the same, the spring won't fit.

 

[budman93]

I finally got the opportunity to work on this thing. Lots of surface rust but bore is still shiny with what appears to be no pitting. Brushed and swabbed the barrel for a good hour and the lands cleaned up nicely, but the grooves still got some surface rust. I assume the surface rust along the grooves will clear out after a couple of cleanings, since the rifle needs to be cleaned after each use anyways.

I proceeded to disassemble the whole rifle, regrease the actions, flush the bore with hot water, purged the bore and breech with compressed air, run a couple of oiled patches along the bore, and reassemble the gun.

It appears to be in shooting condition. I didn't see any heavy or critical corrosion. Breech plug and nipple are clear, and welds along the breech plug appear solid. Anything else I should check for?

View attachment 446887 View attachment 446888 View attachment 446889 View attachment 446890 View attachment 446891

Looks solid to me. I would shoot it. You can start with a small powder charge if you want to be extra careful.

 

[Doco Overboard]

The problem with nipples on those guns occasionally is the compressing of air when the cap is struck which promotes erratic ignition.
Instead of channeling sparks it may better to vent the bolster right in front of where the bolster clean out screw ends.
Drill a very small hole at about a 45 degree angle to the front of the rifle away from your face and it will do two things.
Prevent the compression of air in front of the spark by the explosion of the cap composition. And help to equalize the pressure upon ignition of the main charge once its lit.
That system is notorious for poor ignition however buy doing so it will clear it right up if your load chain has a propensity for hang-fires or a low order of ignition.
The other thing you can do, once you become more familiar with the rifle, with some of those CVA small plate locks is turn it over and adjust the sear to get a better trigger pull off.
It may, or may not be equipped with one but I bet it does.

 

[guzma393]

Interesting info, I'll keep it in mind once I get more into it.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Interesting info, I'll keep it in mind once I get more into it.

See how it does first.
I always used to grab those rifles becuase they were affordable, shot relatively well and were accurate.
The ones I picked up that were not so swell, I used the parts to build other rifles and or just repaired or customized them.
As a matter of fact, I gave one to a friend of mine I bet nearly thirty years ago and he returned it nearly around the same time as your first post.
He was moving to Texas on to a big line construction job and was about crying when he gave it back.
Didn't have room for it to travel.
He said he killed his first deer with it over to East New Market after I let him have it.
I made him take it with him and asked who the F goes to Texas to do line work and doesn't show up with a ML rifle for C***st sake.
So, he wound up taking it with him in case he saw some deer or something down there on the big job.
You can take a bunch of the trigger slop out of it too by soldering a piece of flat stock onto the top of the trigger plate and carefully filing it down and altering the geometry to increase the leverage reducing the pull at the same time.
With a tuned lock itl snap like a whip and break just right I'm sure.
I always had the best luck with round balls and a wad made from a hornets nest for a deer shooting and a accuracy load in the 45's with cut ,deep rifling.

 

[guzma393]

Fooling around with it further till I secure components, I figured percussion nipples are consumables, so I turned the tip down slightly to fit a small boxer primer with the anvil removed. Seems to work really well, since caps are hard to come by nowadays. Now i just need to wait on a bullet mold order and other starter equipment to get started. I was able to secure some pillow ticking and a powder measure on clearance in walmart.

 

[guzma393]

If you plan on shooting it a lot, I would put a search on Ebay for main springs so you can buy a spare. While the traditions lock may look the same, the spring won't fit.

Speak of the devil, the sear return spring snapped on me before I could even shoot it. In a pinch, I fabricated a ribbon spring to serve as a makeshift return spring. It seems to be working well. I also adjusted the sear to have a better trigger pull off.