NRA members who want change?

[Rob R.]

Want to see a little more backbone when it comes to your 2A rights?

Then make your vote count for the 2018 election and help Adam Kraut join the board with your vote.
Only missed being elected in 2017 by 60 votes

Adam is a lawyer and activist located just outside of Philadelphia.
You may already know him from his podcast and co-host of TGC News (The Gun Collective) alongside Jon Patton.
He was also at the Harrisburg outdoor show where I got to spend some time discussing several things with him including the unacceptable situation that occured to members of the Patriot Picket in Annapolis Monday night.
I am pictured below with him Tuesday (little editing to protect my super secret identity from the feds lurking here to deter a second visit from them)

He is a no bs straight shooter who wants to get the NRA one step closer to being the Association we all want. He was recently pointed out by Marion Hammer (former president of the NRA) as being an “enemy within”
Article here
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/01/nra-2018-board-election-commentary-marion-hammer/#axzz56feNN4pR

In which Adam responded to here..
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...marion-hammer-not-enemy-firearms-freedom/amp/


To see more about who Adam is click below
http://www.adamkraut.com

Recent Videos here from their YouTube channel (The Gun Collective).
Videos are extremely informative and Adam really helps take the confusing legal language and breaks it down into a better understanding for those of us who skipped out on 4yrs of Law school.

*Also another great option for your vote would be Duane Liptak Jr from Magpul

 

[Dammit_Man]

Is he for for all the heavy partisan political stuff that the NRA has gotten into or is he more "just guns"?

To clarify, I think having the NRA all aboard the Trump train is gonna bite us all in the ass in 2020 (my own opinion). As a member I don't want the NRA so blantantly partisan, I want an objective gun rights advocate.

Sorry in advance if this sparks something, just trying to get a feel for the guy.

 

[Bob A]

I
To clarify, I think having the NRA all aboard the Trump train is gonna bite us all in the ass in 2020 (my own opinion). As a member I don't want the NRA so blatantly partisan, I want an objective gun rights advocate.

Beg to differ. NRA advocacy is important; those of us in favor of supporting the 2nd Amendment can benefit from their lobbying. Their partisanship is based on a candidate's position on 2A, not their political party.

 

[Dammit_Man]

Beg to differ. NRA advocacy is important; those of us in favor of supporting the 2nd Amendment can benefit from their lobbying. Their partisanship is based on a candidate's position on 2A, not their political party.

I agree with the statement, I don't think that it reflects reality.

I get NRA mail almost daily gloating in democratic failures, congratulating me that Trump won, demonizing Pelosi. It's not hard to see what demographic it's going after.

Rather than just rile up the base that would probably be NRA members regardless I want the NRA to expose hypocrisy in the democratic party, expose cracks and convert people . Maybe teach the black panther suppressing origins of modern California gun laws. Maybe show that "teaching women to shoot" is a hell of a lot more realistic than "teach men not to rape". Show that the 2nd is for everyone, not just for people who donate to the NRA. I think NOIR is a good first step towards a new NRA voice, but more is needed.

Maybe the NRA is just backing it's best bet, but it sure as hell needs to start appealing to demographics other than old conservative men if you want the 2nd to survive. I want a long term strategy.

(For the record I voted McMullin)

 

[Bob A]

. . . I want the NRA to expose hypocrisy in the democratic party, expose cracks and convert people . Maybe teach the black panther suppressing origins of modern California gun laws. Maybe show that "teaching women to shoot" is a hell of a lot more realistic than "teach men not to rape". Show that the 2nd is for everyone, not just for people who donate to the NRA. I think NOIR is a good first step towards a new NRA voice, but more is needed.

I like your ideas, but I'm not sure exposing Democrat hypocrisy is the direction NRA should choose. There are a number of in-your-face 2A organisations that take that tack, and it would result in over-politicising the NRA, an org which already is on the Alt-Left hate list.

Sticking to traditional lobbying, and adding training/outreach to a broader group, especially women, and avoiding the sort of aggressive actions as seen in the Patriot Picket movement, would position them better for tapping into more mainstream audiences.

They need to re-normalise firearm ownership, not engage in demagoguery, for the best effect.

.

 

[Robert2888]

Everything is partisan in Amurrica nowadays but it seems like only one demographic doesn't understand that. The Democratic Party believes in "turn in your guns mr and mrs America".

 

[welder516]

Many opinions about the NRA (good & bad) I will continue to support them as I did today with a lifetime membership at the Outdoor Show in PA . They may not get it all right but it would be more difficult to move around the gun world without them .

They may have slipped up once or twice but they get it right IMHO .

I will in the next couple weeks give money to other 2A groups .

 

[Dammit_Man]

I like your ideas, but I'm not sure exposing Democrat hypocrisy is the direction NRA should choose. There are a number of in-your-face 2A organisations that take that tack, and it would result in over-politicising the NRA, an org which already is on the Alt-Left hate list.

Sticking to traditional lobbying, and adding training/outreach to a broader group, especially women, and avoiding the sort of aggressive actions as seen in the Patriot Picket movement, would position them better for tapping into more mainstream audiences.

They need to re-normalise firearm ownership, not engage in demagoguery, for the best effect.

.

They need to re-normalise firearm ownership, not engage in demagoguery, for the best effect.

-Yes! Agreed. Well put.

 

[GolfR]

They need to re-normalise firearm ownership, not engage in demagoguery, for the best effect.

-Yes! Agreed. Well put.

Agreed. It’s not doing any good to outwardly degrade democrats and antis. The NRA should be focused on capturing the support of more of the middle through outreach, training and open dialogue. It’s hard to capture more new supporters when they sound like they seem more like a lobbying wing of the Republican Party. Leave the news spinning to CNN and Fox please. Preach facts in a respectful and professional way. I think they can do this and continue to unrelentingly support our 2A rights.

 

[jrumann59]

Agreed. It’s not doing any good to outwardly degrade democrats and antis. The NRA should be focused on capturing the support of more of the middle through outreach, training and open dialogue. It’s hard to capture more new supporters when they sound like they seem more like a lobbying wing of the Republican Party. Leave the news spinning to CNN and Fox please. Preach facts in a respectful and professional way. I think they can do this and continue to unrelentingly support our 2A rights.

Degrading the extreme left does nothing as does trying to include them. The NRA does try going for the middle with open dialogue. I guess you have not watched anything on nrafreestyle.tv, they have spent a lot of money trying to go mainstream and show they are not an all, white cigar smoking, duck hunting, camo wearing gun nuts.

I get people are frustrated that the NRA has little presence in this state, for good reason, they can turn the tide in 3 states for the money they would spend to MAYBE stop one bill in this state. MD and states like it are a "Moneypit" for groups like the NRA, they like other "businesses" try to get the most bang for their (your) buck.

admins Some of the post here seem very fishy.

 

[rascal]

demonizing Pelosi.

Look I am centrist on many things myself. I'm in the middle on abortion, don't think anyone should be opposing gay rights, I am against handouts for adults and want them reduced, but also think not enough is being spent on our country's poor kids.

that said, the NRA should demonize Pelosi. She is on record supporting DC in Heller meaning she opposes even the right of people who pass a background check, have training to keep a revolver in a safe at home. She is an extremist who has a position on guns that is to the left of 90% of Democrats.

The NRA's problem is not of positions it is taking. some members will always think it is too lenient and some will think it is to stringent.

The problem the NRA has is the at the gun control lobby is an arm of the Democrat party. The gun control lobby has no member base and EXISTS to channel tax deductible 501(c)3 money into politics and legislation on a strictly partisan basis.

The Democrats believe their own Bull5hit about gun ownership demographics. They have lied about gun ownership rates and demographics so often they believe it. They think that because a rural 50 year old in Wyoming has not trouble telling a pollster he has a gun, because everyone hs ne there, that this means a teachers union member in Baltimore is going to tell a pollster if they have a gun as well. So the narrative that gun ownership is partisan is sticking even though it is not true. What is true is that bloomberg and a handful of mega DNC donors have found a way to channel a huge and growing amount of money into partisan politics while deducting it (having you and I subsidize it).

That said I think the NRA is doing a pretty darn good job given the huge disadvantage they are at when it comes to money. anyone can snipe at them. I can for not pushing Heller. But they don't need more opinions they need more money.

 

[wolfwood]

Get me a NRA board candidate that will get behind repealing the Hughes amendment and I will vote for him.

Besides that Tim Knight for Board.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Welcome back with your new screen name .

 

[rascal]

The NRA has 58% approvals among all Americans in the latest gallup. The claim here that it only has the backing of "old conservative males" is an abject Democrat talking point that is flat earth on the facts. The vast majority of republicans of ALL ages and genders view the NRA positively as do most independents.

nice guy NRA approvals 30 years ago: 40%
muscular NRA approvals today : 58%
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/owy2uwy4okasxwgzgp5fja.png


As far as core trends, ALL same question trend polling on support for gun control, by Pew, gallup, ABC, NBC, CBS, Washington Post, WSJ shows a DECLINE in support for more gun control in 40, 30, 25, 20, 15, 10 year metrics. In most cases in five year metrics as well.

Facts: Less people than ever support substantive increases in gun control, more people than ever own guns, and moe people than ever view the NRA positively.

Examples of substantive trends:
1) in 1960, about 60% of Americans support bans on ALL handguns. That is not carry -- that prohibition is mere possession by citizens. Today 73% oppose such bans:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/n9ggmdee1k60atawqdbprq.gif

2) 20 years ago a MAJORITY of Americans supported assault rifle ban. today a majority of Americans including a majority of Democrats oppose such a ban:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/z1glhmw4sksuic7lekpteq.png
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/7baieajcvucxglhnxzyvxw.png

3) With the exception of short term upticks due to high publicity events, the clear trend on support for more strict gun sales laws is down:
http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.n...nt/uploads/2013/10/a-xv2nvd6ua3x3pdogihfq.png

4) pew on general attitudes shows long term trend of more concern with second amendment rights gaining over support of gun control:
http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2012/12/12-14-1.png

Beware of short term trends. After los vegas there was a blip like Newton. History shows support for more gun control will fall to even lower levels after spikes. Protect yourself from Bull5hit narratives by the gun control lobby and media. And for goodness sakes don't abet them by repeating them.

Think gun ownership is going down because less people will tell a stranger they have a gun at home?
Look at these:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/zcbporzweuevfe2v1kcnmw.png
&
http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2015/04/FT_15.04.01_guns_Safer.png


So, respectfully, please stop repeating a lie and talking point by the opposition that we are losing the public when we are GAINING IT. People are sheep and politicians are exploitive. The narrative of eroding support for and narrow exercise of the second amendment is a key tool of the gun control lobby. don't abet it.

 

[Dammit_Man]

The NRA has 58% approvals among all Americans in the latest gallup. The claim here that it only has the backing of "old conservative males" is an abject Democrat talking point that is flat earth on the facts. The vast majority of republicans of ALL ages and genders view the NRA positively as do most independents.

nice guy NRA approvals 30 years ago: 40%
muscular NRA approvals today : 58%
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/owy2uwy4okasxwgzgp5fja.png


As far as core trends, ALL same question trend polling on support for gun control, by Pew, gallup, ABC, NBC, CBS, Washington Post, WSJ shows a DECLINE in support for more gun control in 40, 30, 25, 20, 15, 10 year metrics. In most cases in five year metrics as well.

Facts: Less people than ever support substantive increases in gun control, more people than ever own guns, and moe people than ever view the NRA positively.

Examples of substantive trends:
1) in 1960, about 60% of Americans support bans on ALL handguns. That is not carry -- that prohibition is mere possession by citizens. Today 73% oppose such bans:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/n9ggmdee1k60atawqdbprq.gif

2) 20 years ago a MAJORITY of Americans supported assault rifle ban. today a majority of Americans including a majority of Democrats oppose such a ban:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/z1glhmw4sksuic7lekpteq.png
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/7baieajcvucxglhnxzyvxw.png

3) With the exception of short term upticks due to high publicity events, the clear trend on support for more strict gun sales laws is down:
http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.n...nt/uploads/2013/10/a-xv2nvd6ua3x3pdogihfq.png

4) pew on general attitudes shows long term trend of more concern with second amendment rights gaining over support of gun control:
http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2012/12/12-14-1.png

Beware of short term trends. After los vegas there was a blip like Newton. History shows support for more gun control will fall to even lower levels after spikes. Protect yourself from Bull5hit narratives by the gun control lobby and media. And for goodness sakes don't abet them by repeating them.

Think gun ownership is going down because less people will tell a stranger they have a gun at home?
Look at these:
http://content.gallup.com/origin/ga...roduction/Cms/POLL/zcbporzweuevfe2v1kcnmw.png
&
http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2015/04/FT_15.04.01_guns_Safer.png


So, respectfully, please stop repeating a lie and talking point by the opposition that we are losing the public when we are GAINING IT. People are sheep and politicians are exploitive. The narrative of eroding support for and narrow exercise of the second amendment is a key tool of the gun control lobby. don't abet it.

This is a giant strawman. No one has said anything at odds to your entire post. By nature old conservative men are going to die out. Logic dictates that the NRA is going to need to reach out beyond them for a future (as in hasn't happened yet) strategy. No one has claimed that the NRA ONLY appeals to them. That's your own overly literal interpretation and the rest of my post doesn't support it.. I suspect you're being obtuse in order to align your argument to fit that prepared narrative you got there. I'm not even going to ask why you have charts.

Also those numbers don't prove the NRA is doing a good job (which I don't care about in this respect anyway). Correlation !=causation. I would argue that the introduction of the internet and easily available information has had more impact than anything the NRA does on public opinion.

If you wanted to just post that stuff as an aside I wouldn't have said a thing, but please don't misquote what I said and then act like I'm acting against my own interests.

 

[rascal]

This is a giant strawman. No one has said anything at odds to your entire post. By nature old conservative men are going to die out. Logic dictates that the NRA is going to need to reach out beyond them for a future (as in hasn't happened yet) strategy. No one has claimed that the NRA ONLY appeals to them. That's your own overly literal interpretation and the rest of my post doesn't support it.. I suspect you're being obtuse in order to align your argument to fit that prepared narrative you got there. I'm not even going to ask why you have charts.

Also those numbers don't prove the NRA is doing a good job (which I don't care about in this respect anyway). Correlation !=causation. I would argue that the introduction of the internet and easily available information has had more impact than anything the NRA does on public opinion.

If you wanted to just post that stuff as an aside I wouldn't have said a thing, but please don't misquote what I said and then act like I'm acting against my own interests.

Actually YOUR post is the gigantic strawman. to support it you need to invent your facts. of course you are not going ask why Gallup or anyone "has charts" as

this upsets your non factual argument. NRA already appeals the majority of Americas. it has 58% approvals. "Older white men" are about 1/3 of that, 2/3 of that are not older white men.

It appeals across gender age, and area. NRA has been increasing appeal as older white men have declined as a portion of the population. It does not appeal to the left wing of the Democrat party.

And why you need to complain about Pelosi being criticized for her positions is beyond me.

 

[rascal]

They need to re-normalise firearm ownership, not engage in demagoguery, for the best effect.

you have not provided any evidence whatsoever of "demagoguery."

And firearms ownership is "normal" and normative. It is simply more discreet and confidential because we have moved from 70% to 80% hunting, a semi social activity, to 80% self defense, which is inherently confidential.

Firearms ownership has not become in any way less normal, its public and social aspects have changed because what people use firearms for is more confidential.

 

[Dammit_Man]

Actually YOUR post is the gigantic strawman. to support it you need to invent your facts. of course you are not going ask why Gallup or anyone "has charts" as

this upsets your non factual argument. NRA already appeals the majority of Americas. it has 58% approvals. "Older white men" are about 1/3 of that, 2/3 of that are not older white men.

It appeals across gender age, and area. NRA has been increasing appeal as older white men have declined as a portion of the population. It does not appeal to the left wing of the Democrat party.

And why you need to complain about Pelosi being criticized for her positions is beyond me.

Listen, if we can't agree that the NRA is going to lose an important demographic over the next 50 years and needs to adjust we're not going to agree on anything.


Edit: and changing "demonizing" to criticizing....that.....do you know what strawman fallacy means? I give up....you win. I don't want to do this with you anymore

 

[rascal]

Listen, if we can't agree that the NRA is going to lose an important demographic over the next 50 years and needs to adjust we're not going to agree on anything.


Edit: and changing "demonizing" to criticizing....that.....do you know what strawman fallacy means? I give up....you win. I don't want to do this with you anymore

It isnt about disagreement or agreement, it is about you having your facts inverted -- either through ignorantly or willfully.

Support for the core gun control goals is higher among the aged and support for the second amendment is higher among the YOUNG. Why do you think support for gun control is dropping?

Support for bans on assault rifles, handguns, large capacity magazine is demonstrably higher the older you go in demographic cohorts. Over 65 year olds are 20 points more likely to want bans on assault rifles than 50 year olds and 50 year olds are 8 point more likely to support bans than 27-34 year olds.

What you are doing with your gigantic strawman is setting up the argument than support for the second amendment is lowest among the young when the opposite is the case.


NRA has gone from under 40% approvals a generation ago to 58% approvals today because the old people who make up the core of the anti-Second amendment demographic are dying off.

You are just repeating debunked and incorrect talking points of the gun control lobby -- which incidentally is virtually totally funded by three quite elderly white men!









.

 

[rascal]

By the way criticizing Pelosi or demonizing her for her direct opposition the basic tenets of the Second amendment (she disagrees with US constitution and the law of the land that it is even a right at all) is no different than the ACLU criticizing and demonizing leading politicians who reject the freedoms in the first, fourth or fifth amendment rights.

Her position on a recent gun control legislation and concerns about whether more gun control would be the impetus for a slippery slope and further erosion of the Second Amendment was "I hope so."