need knife schooling

[shaddydan]

I have carried this little Kershaw in my pocket for years. I really like the spring assist opening feature but it doesn't seem to hold an edge well. What would be a good replacement with a blade assist opening and tough steel. The one handed operation is great for cutting boxes which is mostly what I use it for.
Thanks

 

[hvymax]

There are many options in AUS8 or whatever alloy is cool this week. You have to step up to $30-100 knives to get something good.

 

[shaddydan]

Well, that one was $40 at DSG a few years back. I don't know which models have a spring assist. I've read some of the knife threads and $300 is a bit much for me to carry as a utility knife.

 

[hvymax]

Well, that one was $40 at DSG a few years back. I don't know which models have a spring assist. I've read some of the knife threads and $300 is a bit much for me to carry as a utility knife.

$30-$100 price range. I think I paid $16 for my Kershaw. I carry a Boker but have other knives. I also keep a pocket sharpener in my toolbox and in my car.

 

[psycosteve]

As with everything in life is balance. edge retention counter acts ease of sharpening. Cardboard does a number of knives in general anyways so I would more then likely steer you into a folding razor blade knife like a cobalt where you can just change the blades out right and be done with it. cardboard does not need a good quality knife to be cut with . I would go disposable and keep the pocket knife for other purposes .

 

[NickZac]

If you want assisted, look at the ZT0350, Benchmade Nitrous models, and the ZDP-189 Kershaw Cyclone.

If you will consider something one-handed but without the assist, check the Spyderco Delica in ZDP-189 (ZDP is about as good as edge retention gets) or VG-10 for a lower cost, a Benchmade with an AXIS like the Griptilian in 154, S30V, or D2 steel, a ZT flipper like the Hinderer models.

IIRC your knife is 440A...it's entry steel. Going with 440C or AUS-8 goes up one step...going with 154, S30V, S35VN, D2 is two...M2, M4, ZDP-189, S110V, ELMAX is around 4.

If you go for a serrated knife, you will get more time between sharpening. Spyderco's SALT line in H1 is a great low-cost user and unlike most steels, it simply does not rust as it is a nitrogen hardened steel. It also gets harder every time it is sharpened.

If you don't have a Spyderco SharpMaker yet, get one. Use it frequently to pass a few strokes on the fine rods every few days...this keeps the knife always sharp and reduces the metal removed. A dull knife is like a dumb friend and is incredibly unsafe. The best way to sharpen a knife is never letting it get dull.

A few which may suit you are the Doug Ritter Mini-Griptilian by Benchmade in CPM-S30V, a regular Mini-Grip in 154 (the Ritter is much much better, tho) or even better, the Hinderer in S35VN. S35VN is IMO the finest all-around cutlery steel to date. If you want smaller, Spyderco makes numerous small one-handed blades with excellent steel.

http://www.bladehq.com/item--Zero-Tolerance-0550-Knife--7609
(ignore the price, you can get blems for half it and they have a 3.25 inch model out now...this is prolyl the cheapest S35VN blade on the market and it is an incredible knife. You will love S35VN as it is sooo easy to sharpen, tough as hell, resists rust well, and gives excellent edge retention...it also really likes stropping)



EDIT: Check out this http://www.bladehq.com/item--Kershaw-Cryo-II-Spring-Assisted--12693
While the steel is closer to 440C, it's a sweet deal

 

[sgt23preston]

Sgt Preston here...

Cutting lots of Corrugated Boxes will dull up most knives...

Consider keeping a razor knife(s) (with throw away blades) near where you open & cut up your boxes...

 

[smokey]

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/GB4...ife-Stainless-Steel-w-Contractor-Razor-Cutter
this will be the best box cutting knife you can fold up and keep in your pocket.

If you want your kershaw, but with better steel...get this....
http://kershawguy.com/products-page/kershaw-blems/composite-leek-blem-2/

you could get this for a bigger knife too...
http://kershawguy.com/products-page/kershaw-blems/junk-yard-dog-ii/
$40 and d2 steel cutting edge.

 

[NickZac]

For someone who cuts a lot of boxes, the Spyderco Tasman Salt is a great choice because it cuts with less force due to the teeth, and it uses a steel which gets harder every time it is sharpened. The hawkbill design makes controlled cuts, especially with cardboard, much much mich easier. They make the Salt line in plain edge and traditional blade shapes as well.

For someone doing a crap ton of cutting cardboard or other fibers known to dull blades, a super-steel or hyper-steel may be in order. The Spyderco Delica in ZDP-189 can be had for under $80...the hardness of the Spyderco ZDP-189 folders ranges from about 64 to 66 HRC, which is incredible hardness and the edge retention is simply incredible, as is the steel's ability to resist edge deformation. For someone wanting extreme retention, ZDP-189 is a good candidate. Kerhaw makes some ZDP blades as well.

 

[shaddydan]

Sweet! Thanks for all the info guys! I just wanted to be a lot more informed when I get a new knife! Unfortunately, it will have to wait since the washing machine decided to end it's life.....R.I.P.

 

[byf43]

As with everything in life is balance. edge retention counter acts ease of sharpening. Cardboard does a number of knives in general anyways so I would more then likely steer you into a folding razor blade knife like a cobalt where you can just change the blades out right and be done with it. cardboard does not need a good quality knife to be cut with . I would go disposable and keep the pocket knife for other purposes .

^^^^This!

I keep a Kobalt (I've got several different brands) folding razor knife in my desk for cutting down boxes, etc., and my Benchmade Mini-AFCK is for "Social" work.

For boxes..... cheap is good. That way, when it gets ruined or lost, you're not out a lot of $$$.

 

[briwayjones]

It doesn't seem like it holds an edge well because you mostly cut cardboard with it. Cardboard contains clay particles and is very hard on blades.

 

[NickZac]

It doesn't seem like it holds an edge well because you mostly cut cardboard with it. Cardboard contains clay particles and is very hard on blades.

I agree. For cutting cardboard, blade steel, blade shape, angle, grind, and more should factor into choice. Many of the high-speed steels and ZDP-189 can cut cardboard all day with almost zero effect on the blade.

 

[smokey]

I agree. For cutting cardboard, blade steel, blade shape, angle, grind, and more should factor into choice. Many of the high-speed steels and ZDP-189 can cut cardboard all day with almost zero effect on the blade.

the cpm-m4(62-64 hrc) in my contego holds up REALLY well to cutting open boxes at basspro. The aus-8 and excellent ffg of the ontario rat dulled pretty damned quick, the first dozen boxes or so and that aus-8 wasn't shaving anymore arm hair. The cpm-m4 wasn't tree-topping things, but it was still plenty capable of shaving. After a couple days of carboard abuse, "steeling" it on a glass cup and then some stropping made it come back to shaving sharp. If you use and abuse knives, the differences in steels can be huge.

 

[alucard0822]

For cardboard, it takes a hell of a steel in a thin bladed knife to hang with a simple cheap folding box cutter using disposable blades. A knife needs to be tough and avoid breakage aka lower hardness. Razors are very thin, so they slice well, and are hardened substantially some have coatings or serrations that make then last even longer. Just not worth wearing out a decent folder for piles of cardboard. Now if you have to bust a few boxes unexpectedly, or away from a box cutter, then most premium steels, especially above 60 hardness will hold a good edge for a long time, softer AUS8, 420, 440B and the like just are outclassed by any premium steel, especially those with a lot of vanadium or formulations like M4 or M390 that contain tungsten, they may hold an edge many times better.

 

[Biggfoot44]

If *utility* means all around everyday usage , with only occasional cardboard ! Then step up one notch in steel , to ; 420HC / 440C / AUS-8 / or 1095 for the really old school. And the important part is sharpen it right from the get go , and touch up at first hint of needing it. For that matter proper edge geometry , and frequent touchup will make your present 440A seem like a new knife.

If *utility* does mean constantly slicing cardboard , you have two paths to follow :

1. If you alrady had desires of kives with Super-Premiumum steel of you inclinations , then consider yourself justified , and go for it.

2m if you just want to cost effectivly kill cardboard , you can't beat the bang for the buck of folding razor knife.

 

[shaddydan]

I have folding razor knives but they don't have the spring assist opening feature. I don't really cut cardboard all day, only occasionally. The knife I carry is a general utility knife. I basically wanted the same knife, only better. I think the serrations seem like a good idea for a utility knife. Are they any more/less difficult to sharpen?

 

[byf43]

I have folding razor knives but they don't have the spring assist opening feature. I don't really cut cardboard all day, only occasionally. The knife I carry is a general utility knife. I basically wanted the same knife, only better. I think the serrations seem like a good idea for a utility knife. Are they any more/less difficult to sharpen?

To me, serrations are a PITA to sharpen.


YMMV.

 

[NickZac]

the cpm-m4(62-64 hrc) in my contego holds up REALLY well to cutting open boxes at basspro. The aus-8 and excellent ffg of the ontario rat dulled pretty damned quick, the first dozen boxes or so and that aus-8 wasn't shaving anymore arm hair. The cpm-m4 wasn't tree-topping things, but it was still plenty capable of shaving. After a couple days of carboard abuse, "steeling" it on a glass cup and then some stropping made it come back to shaving sharp. If you use and abuse knives, the differences in steels can be huge.

I like M4 with cardboard because as you noted, the edge resists deformation so well that stropping or steeling, sometimes with a paste, is usually enough to bring the edge back to shaving sharp. The Benchmade M2HS and CPM-M4 blades I have take longer to sharpen, but they resist dulling so well that when maintained correctly they rarely need to make contact with a stone. ZDP-189 is the same way, although I look at M4 as a better all-around cutlery steel. It is worth noting that even tho it is tougher and sports better edge retention, I find CPM-M4 to be A LOT easier to sharpen than ZDP or the older M2HS...my assumption is it is partly from the CPM process and partly due to high vanadium content. M390 is another I find to be easy to work relative to its hardness and toughness...on the flip side, S90V is probably the steel I hate most to sharpen right next to S60V/440V (which is soft steel generally only in the mid-50s).

For the person using a knife blade in high wear applications who is willing to sharpen/strop small amounts more frequently instead of allowing the blade to dull to a blunt utility edge before sharpening, super steels are awesome and it sounds like CPM-M4 allows you to do just that. For users who prefer not to sharpen frequently and essentially use the knife until it is dull a crap tho, super steels are a nightmare given resetting the edge on most blades over 62 hardness is like using a manual push mower to trim a baseball stadium lol

For cardboard, it takes a hell of a steel in a thin bladed knife to hang with a simple cheap folding box cutter using disposable blades. A knife needs to be tough and avoid breakage aka lower hardness. Razors are very thin, so they slice well, and are hardened substantially some have coatings or serrations that make then last even longer. Just not worth wearing out a decent folder for piles of cardboard. Now if you have to bust a few boxes unexpectedly, or away from a box cutter, then most premium steels, especially above 60 hardness will hold a good edge for a long time, softer AUS8, 420, 440B and the like just are outclassed by any premium steel, especially those with a lot of vanadium or formulations like M4 or M390 that contain tungsten, they may hold an edge many times better.

I wish we would see more folders with steels that do well with higher hardness and do not lose much toughness at all. Stuff like CPM-3V, Hitachi Super, Blue #2, etc. around 61-63 hardness would be kick ass blades. I have knives in M4 and M390 and I like both more than many of the other super steels because they aren't as difficult to work with and they are tough as nails for what they are. Only recently am I seeing more stuff with M390, including a few very low-cost kitchen knives, which makes me nice and giddy. I’m looking forward to ZT’s new ZT0777 made with M390 and have one on order.

To me, serrations are a PITA to sharpen.


YMMV.

With the SharpMaker, they are far easier than even easy-to-sharpen plain-edged blades IMHO

If *utility* means all around everyday usage , with only occasional cardboard ! Then step up one notch in steel , to ; 420HC / 440C / AUS-8 / or 1095 for the really old school. And the important part is sharpen it right from the get go , and touch up at first hint of needing it. For that matter proper edge geometry , and frequent touchup will make your present 440A seem like a new knife.

If *utility* does mean constantly slicing cardboard , you have two paths to follow :

1. If you alrady had desires of kives with Super-Premiumum steel of you inclinations , then consider yourself justified , and go for it.

2m if you just want to cost effectivly kill cardboard , you can't beat the bang for the buck of folding razor knife.

I agree…a dull knife is like a dumb friend and frequent mini-sharpenings (and for steels very good at resisting edge deformation, mini stropping or steeling sessions), will mean less steel is removed and the knife is sharp at all times. There are a lot of steels on the market that are so good now that users can more or less keep them razor sharp by just using a strop here and there to realign the edge before more work is needed. Many of the blades I use in M390, M2, M4, S30V, S35VN, ELMAX, Blue #2, and others have never even seen my SharpMaker or EdgePro because after I get home after using them I make a few passes on a strop.

 

[NickZac]

I have folding razor knives but they don't have the spring assist opening feature. I don't really cut cardboard all day, only occasionally. The knife I carry is a general utility knife. I basically wanted the same knife, only better. I think the serrations seem like a good idea for a utility knife. Are they any more/less difficult to sharpen?

I find them to be easier than a plain edge with a sharpmaker...with just a rod, I find them to be a nightmare.

Are you looking for something in the same general size? I do not think they've made runs of your exact knife in serious steel, but some of the other assisted openers of similar sizes from Kershaw/Ken Onion have been made in small runs. Ones I can think off of my head are the G10/S30V Leek, the Composite Leek (which uses high-hardness D2 tool steel mated with a tougher steel), Kershaw Scallion in S30V, Damascus, and a 440B IIRC. With that said, options are limited. (Kershaw has made the Cyclone in many steels all the way up to ZDP-189, but it is a larger folder).

If you are flexible on exact size and will consider others, you can find something a good bit better as that particular knife was never designed for the market of heavier usage and steel junkies. Honestly many of the one-handed openers like Benchmade’s AXIS are 1000 times easier to open and close one-handed and are all-around better knives. The Benchmade Mini Grip AXIS, for example, is available in 440C, 154CM, S30V, D2, (shortly) S35VN, M2, and M4 …all of which are massive jumps in performance and move up incrementally. Many of the smaller Spyderco folders also offer easier to use locks and better steels. I think if you went to one of the stocking dealers to handle a bit of everything that you would quickly find yourself liking another folder significantly more and you will find it much easier to operate…actually, I’d bet money on it.

Spyderco is also ramping up production on some folders made in CTS-XHP. While I've not had much experience with it, a friend of mine who works in the industry and always gets the coolest things first tells me it is easier than 154CM to sharpen (which is one of the easiest steels to sharpen used today), but holds an edge like S90V (which has some of the best edge retention of any steel used today), and can take a beating like CPM-3V (which is one of the tougher of steels used today)...prices will probably be high, but they will be bad ass.