My 9mm AR was filthy

[bfoosh006]

Do I keep dicking around with my current upper or do I just drop $400 and get this? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ht-keymod-railed-moe-rifle-kit-516446675.html

We can try and help... might need details again...

What specific .308 spring were you using ?

And I still think adjusting the extractor might help with the spent cases in the action... as well as the bolt riding something.

Are you using a "brass catcher" at all ?... My brass catcher was bouncing the fired brass in the action after ejecting it.

Did you clean the insides of the Colt mags ... use the 1 gal paint stick to feel for burrs in the back grooved channel? and which brand mags are the ... Colt has used the Metalform and the ASC type.

If they are Metalform... remove the sticky packing / preservative grease... I actually used TR3 car cleaner / wax.

TR3 works so dang good for cleaning that it sits on the gun bench... you'd be surprised how well it works.


Like all AR's there is a fine balance between all those springs and the ejector working together... if the bolt is traveling faster then the mag spring ( from burrs or stickiness ) , then you have problems... if the ejector is flicking the case into a inside edge, rather then straight out the ejection port, then it will bounce back into the action causing problems.

 

[j_h_smith]

Do I keep dicking around with my current upper or do I just drop $400 and get this? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ht-keymod-railed-moe-rifle-kit-516446675.html

That's up to you. I'm the type of person where I like the challenge to get something working. My carbine (the one I use the most) took some time, a few parts were upgraded but now it does what I want it to do. But mine was fixed with a heavy buffer and spring.

Something I don't remember if it's been talked about, how many rounds have been fired through these rifles that are having problems? I also believe (no real data to back up my opinion) that you have to shoot around 1000 rounds out of your 9mm AR rifle in order to gain some reliability.

Maybe this was talked about, maybe it wasn't.

YMMV

 

[boss281]

Do I keep dicking around with my current upper or do I just drop $400 and get this? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ht-keymod-railed-moe-rifle-kit-516446675.html

If you'd be willing to take up a drive on a weekday, I'm usually at the AGC range in Marriotsville MD 1-2x weekly for the next couple of weeks. I have my old Colt 6450 and several original Colt 32 and 20 rd mags, several brand new 32 rd Colt mags, and 2 20 round Metalform mags, and an assortment of factory load 9mm ammo. Hell, we can try your mags in my gun and see if the same thing happens. Also, I have a .308 spring arriving tomorrow, and just received the kak adjustable buffer. Lots of things to try...

 

[boss281]

Spent 3 hours at the range testing 9mm and comparing 25yd/50yd accuracy. This is the old Colt 6450, the new 6951 is still at Colt and no word yet on the broken bolt catch issue.

Here are 5 different 9mm loads (left to right):
Winchester 115g, Winchester 124g NATO, Speer Lawman 124g, Winchester 90g Super Clean, Winchester 147g WinClean. The first 3 are dirty as hell, the 2 "clean" factory loads burn much less (the WinClean often pristine).

All are accurate at 25yds with 1" groups using a Vortex Strikefire II on top of the carry handle (and cleanly cowitnessed with the A1 rear peep sight) from the bench. At 50 yards, I found the 147g the most accurate, say 2" groups and a stray or two occasionally, the others were more 3-5" with frequent strays (90g the worst at 50, man that was all over the place).

Since this gun has been flawless, I wasn't concerned with buffer spring, weight or length. But, it's been suggested that adding some quarters to the bottom of the buffer tube would help eliminate some of that burn caused by blowback (I also have a .308 spring and adjustable buffer handy SHOULD I need them).

I went from $.50 to $1.75, and ALL caused failure to eject/feed issues. At one point I really had to yank hard on the charging handle to get the bolt unstuck and retracted. Standard buffer and spring still appear to be holding their own, and the bolt catch (knock on wood) still true. Again, recoil with standard loads not quite to my liking since this is going to be my PCC backup gun once my brand new 6951 gets fixed, but the 147g sounds and feels like a pop gun, so that will be run through the newer rifle to test when I get it back.

All magazines today were 32 and 20 round original Colt (22yo) magazines and one new 32rd Colt, and one 20rd Metalform about 7 years old. All good as long as the quarters weren't used.

From this, I'll be shooting the 147g WinClean or 90g Super Clean going forward, and if I don't get my new rifle back in a couple of weeks, I'll try to shoot in my first competition using this old thing before vacation on the 16th.

That all said, I'm still really interested in building my own 9mm AR, probably over the coldest winter months to test during the Spring...

If anyone wants to test their magazines in what appears to be a working platform, I'm at the AGC in Marriottsville in the mornings 1-2x per week usually Monday or Tuesday, and Friday.

 

[boss281]

And the 9mm magazine assist mentioned somewhere...

 

[outrider58]

And the 9mm magazine assist mentioned somewhere...

Thanks boss!

 

[bfoosh006]

boss281...

"Since this gun has been flawless, I wasn't concerned with buffer spring, weight or length. But, it's been suggested that adding some quarters to the bottom of the buffer tube would help eliminate some of that burn caused by blowback (I also have a .308 spring and adjustable buffer handy SHOULD I need them).

I went from $.50 to $1.75, and ALL caused failure to eject/feed issues. At one point I really had to yank hard on the charging handle to get the bolt unstuck and retracted."

The quarter fix is for use with a standard AR15 buffer... and is ONLY meant to help the bolt catch from breaking... by limiting over travel.

I strongly suggest you try the .308 spring and the heavier buffer ... that will be what helps your excess you "bark and blast" ( including the dirtier cases.

 

[boss281]

boss281...

"Since this gun has been flawless, I wasn't concerned with buffer spring, weight or length. But, it's been suggested that adding some quarters to the bottom of the buffer tube would help eliminate some of that burn caused by blowback (I also have a .308 spring and adjustable buffer handy SHOULD I need them).

I went from $.50 to $1.75, and ALL caused failure to eject/feed issues. At one point I really had to yank hard on the charging handle to get the bolt unstuck and retracted."

The quarter fix is for use with a standard AR15 buffer... and is ONLY meant to help the bolt catch from breaking... by limiting over travel.

I strongly suggest you try the .308 spring and the heavier buffer ... that will be what helps your excess you "bark and blast" ( including the dirtier cases.

Hmmm. I suppose it can't hurt while I wait on the other rifle to arrive. I just pulled the 6450 apart and test fit the Colt OEM buffer with the .308 spring, and it does not fit well and seems much to tight to compress cleanly, so I'll try the Kak buffer on the spring tonight after we get back from visiting one of the kids. I'll take a pic tonight.

I also forgot to mention on TWO occasions today the bolt catch released on its own when I pushed a 32 round magazine into the rifle (I shot 250 rounds so 25% with mags filled to 25). Not liking that, but the bolt catches are a known wear item. I THINK they are shared with the 5.56 Colt rifles so it should be an easy to find purchase. Brownells probably has that flat punch used to push out the BHO pin too...

 

[bfoosh006]

Hmmm. I suppose it can't hurt while I wait on the other rifle to arrive. I just pulled the 6450 apart and test fit the Colt OEM buffer with the .308 spring, and it does not fit well and seems much to tight to compress cleanly, so I'll try the Kak buffer on the spring tonight after we get back from visiting one of the kids. I'll take a pic tonight.

I also forgot to mention on TWO occasions today the bolt catch released on its own when I pushed a 32 round magazine into the rifle (I shot 250 rounds so 25% with mags filled to 25). Not liking that, but the bolt catches are a known wear item. I THINK they are shared with the 5.56 Colt rifles so it should be an easy to find purchase. Brownells probably has that flat punch used to push out the BHO pin too...

Take a screw driver or such, and on your OEM setup and press the complete original buffer assembly fully into the buffer tube... make a note of where the buffer stops... ( mark on the screwdriver )... then try the .308 Tubbs ... it should go to about the same distance... if not slightly more.

Report back prior to firing again.

 

[jimbobborg]

Do I keep dicking around with my current upper or do I just drop $400 and get this? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ht-keymod-railed-moe-rifle-kit-516446675.html

Or spend another $100 and get a whole rifle this weekend? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-9mm-1-10-keymod-classic-rifle-516446755.html

 

[boss281]

Or spend another $100 and get a whole rifle this weekend? http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-9mm-1-10-keymod-classic-rifle-516446755.html

In reading the specs it sounded interesting​ until no last round bolt hold open. Is that a show stopper for you?

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[inkd]

I also forgot to mention on TWO occasions today the bolt catch released on its own when I pushed a 32 round magazine into the rifle (I shot 250 rounds so 25% with mags filled to 25). Not liking that, but the bolt catches are a known wear item. I THINK they are shared with the 5.56 Colt rifles so it should be an easy to find purchase. Brownells probably has that flat punch used to push out the BHO pin too...

Mine did it to me today about 3 times. I couldn't get it to repeat each time. I plan on swapping it out anyway with a Geissele Marine Bolt Catch anyway.

I did use the Spikes Tactical and flat wire spring today and my cases were still pretty dirty.

I was shooting Winchester white box 115gr, Blazer 115gr and American Eagle 147gr flat point.

I think the CCI was a bit cleaner, not by much though.

 

[inkd]

And the 9mm magazine assist mentioned somewhere...

Is that made by Magpul? I have to have one!!!!!

 

[j_h_smith]

Mine did it to me today about 3 times. I couldn't get it to repeat each time. I plan on swapping it out anyway with a Geissele Marine Bolt Catch anyway.

I did use the Spikes Tactical and flat wire spring today and my cases were still pretty dirty.

I was shooting Winchester white box 115gr, Blazer 115gr and American Eagle 147gr flat point.

I think the CCI was a bit cleaner, not by much though.

Those WWB 115gr round are some very filthy rounds. Probably the dirtiest I've ever fired. It wouldn't surprise me if those are the source of some of your problems.

Try a little better round and see if that makes a difference.

 

[inkd]

Those WWB 115gr round are some very filthy rounds. Probably the dirtiest I've ever fired. It wouldn't surprise me if those are the source of some of your problems.

Try a little better round and see if that makes a difference.

I separated all the brands as I fired them. Blazer was a little better but not by much. White box was the dirtiest by far.

I'm not too worried about it. I got a good deal on the gun and it is a blast to shoot.

I'm gonna send some reloads through it next and see how they come out. Like I said, it won't bother me if they are dirty. It's a fair trade, to me, for how fun the gun is to shoot.

 

[boss281]

I shot about 100 rounds of Blazer 115g a few weeks back and it was just as filthy as Winchester white box. Like i said above, 124g wasn't much better. I am sticking to Winchester 90g SuperClean and 147g WinClean going forward.

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[outrider58]

Is that made by Magpul? I have to have one!!!!!

Yes.

https://www.magpul.com/products/original-magpul-9mm-subgun

 

[inkd]

Yes.

https://www.magpul.com/products/original-magpul-9mm-subgun

 

[outrider58]

And the 9mm magazine assist mentioned somewhere...

Thanks again boss281 for your generosity. Nice meeting you. We'll have to hit the IWLA and do some 'long range' 9mm shooting.

 

[boss281]

Hope they work for you. But 5.56 needs love too every now and then! But 500 rds and barely any grime, sheesh!

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