MSP LD advisory on FSA 2013 Compliance

[Pinecone]

From what I saw it doesn't matter if it is cosmetic similar. They don't make you fill out the banned form just because it looks similar to a banned weapons.

To be considered a copycat the internal parts tjat make it fiction have to be interchangeable.

No, just looking similar is not enough.

But according to that document, interchangeable parts is also NOT ENOUGH. It must be BOTH.

And this applies to COPY or IMITATION. Copy cat is the 29" minimum and the 2 of 3 evil features.

 

[Pinecone]

Does this advisory really do anything more than reiterate what the statute is? I think we all know what the statute is. Now, how it is interpreted is a completely different thing with a good amount of disagreement.

Yes, the statute does not define a copy or imitation.

This advisory does. And according to it, the firearm must have completely interchangeable internal components AND be cosmetically similar.

The AND is interesting.

 

[swinokur]

AG ruling on copies FYI.
.
.

 

[fabsroman]

AG ruling on copies FYI.
.
.

I've read it about 20 times now. All you need to do is focus on the conclusion paragraph:

Conclusion
For the reasons set forth above, it is our opinion that the
reference to “copies” in PS §5-101(p)(2) does not extend the
regulated firearms law to weapons that bear a mere cosmetic
similarity to a listed weapon. Rather, in order for a firearm to be
considered a copy of a listed assault weapon, and therefore governed
by the regulated firearms law, there must be a similarity between the
internal components and function of the firearm in question and
those of one of the listed weapons. A determination as to whether
a particular firearm bears such similarity is a factual question
entrusted in the first instance to the Department of State Police.

How MSP got completely interchangeable parts from the AG opinion is beyond me, but the factual question of "copy" has been entrusted to MSP. The one good thing in the AG opinion is that it states where a "caliber" is specifically referenced in the enumerated list, a gun of a different "caliber" would not be a copy since the legislative intent was to limit the characterization to the specific "caliber" mentioned in the statute.

The problem with these laws is that what they mean depends on who you ask on any given day.

 

[BeoBill]

Maybe it's a reaction to the reaction to the MA AG opinion that has that state up in arms. Or as I said earlier, an attempt to steal Christmas?

 

[Bob A]

"Similarity" instead of "interchangeability" while leaving the determination to MSP is typical legal sleaze.

 

[fabsroman]

"Similarity" instead of "interchangeability" while leaving the determination to MSP is typical legal sleaze.

There is so much gray in the statute and the AG opinion. Not only that, but take a look at how HBAR is defined. My FFL sent an e-mail to MSP regarding an "HBAR" barrel that I was looking at for a build, and he never received a response.

 

[ken792]

So who's making a long stroke gas M14, gas tappet operated AK, or AR lower that takes 5.56 AK mags?

 

[Hawkeye]

My FFL sent an e-mail to MSP regarding an "HBAR" barrel that I was looking at for a build, and he never received a response.

Hah! Of course he didn't!

Remember, MSPs written response to the Engage lawsuit was to "ask your FFL" if something is banned or not.

 

[fabsroman]

Hah! Of course he didn't!

Remember, MSPs written response to the Engage lawsuit was to "ask your FFL" if something is banned or not.

So, if the FFL says it is all good and sells it to me, then I am all good, right? smh while trying not to laugh hysterically.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I don't think there is a whole lot to protect us regarding guidance.

Folks talk about printing out an advertisement or a description or carry the shipping order with the gun. But there are no identifying marks on a barrel. Certainly no serial number. No way to balance the printout or work order to the barrel in question.

The Officer has to take your word for it. Cuzz you ain't gonna prove one way or the other if you're compliant. And if you've done something so egregious that you've been pulled over and removed from your vehicle, while your stuff is being gone through, then you have bigger problems.

If the Officer wants your gun, no piece of paper is going to stop him/her. What we need is clarification of what an HBAR is and what an HBAR isn't. Can't be that difficult. Now that IS something Gov. Hogan could work on for us. .02.

 

[ShafTed]

There is so much gray in the statute and the AG opinion. Not only that, but take a look at how HBAR is defined. My FFL sent an e-mail to MSP regarding an "HBAR" barrel that I was looking at for a build, and he never received a response.

They will "respond" after you builld your rifle. Maybe.

 

[lazarus]

One.

Farging.

Rifle.

So, Big Bubba needs to show the peons his big stick (even though it's cracked, part of it's missing, and the duct tape is falling off).

Maybe, but I'd bet some money they are simply loading up another charge on someone for something else that person did which was illegal.

 

[ARMatt]

I'm so confused, can someone brake this down into lamens terms for a simpleton?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

I'm so confused, can someone brake this down into lamens terms for a simpleton?

"We know what a banned/copycat is when we see it, but we can't define it for you, because we only know what it is if we see it." - MSP

Make sense?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

I've read it about 20 times now. All you need to do is focus on the conclusion paragraph:

Conclusion
For the reasons set forth above, it is our opinion that the
reference to “copies” in PS §5-101(p)(2) does not extend the
regulated firearms law to weapons that bear a mere cosmetic
similarity to a listed weapon. Rather, in order for a firearm to be
considered a copy of a listed assault weapon, and therefore governed
by the regulated firearms law, there must be a similarity between the
internal components and function of the firearm in question and
those of one of the listed weapons. A determination as to whether
a particular firearm bears such similarity is a factual question
entrusted in the first instance to the Department of State Police.

How MSP got completely interchangeable parts from the AG opinion is beyond me, but the factual question of "copy" has been entrusted to MSP. The one good thing in the AG opinion is that it states where a "caliber" is specifically referenced in the enumerated list, a gun of a different "caliber" would not be a copy since the legislative intent was to limit the characterization to the specific "caliber" mentioned in the statute.

The problem with these laws is that what they mean depends on who you ask on any given day.

I needed part of this. Thanks fabs.

 

[ARMatt]

"We know what a banned/copycat is when we see it, but we can't define it for you, because we only know what it is if we see it." - MSP

Make sense?

So basically everything we already know?

What I want clarification on is "Avtomat klanishicov in any form "

 

[basscat]

"We know what a banned/copycat is when we see it, but we can't define it for you, because we only know what it is if we see it." - MSP

Make sense?

A page straight out of the G&S play book.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

So basically everything we already know?

What I want clarification on is "Avtomat klanishicov in any form "

That means that the AK in any form is banned. Get a VZ and you are fine. The KS-47, no problem. The AK, you are in deep shit, unless you completed an 80% flat before 10/1/13.

A page straight out of the G&S play book.

Pretty much. They don't care and make up rules as they go along.

 

[rickyp]

Don't forget the vepr rifles / shotguns and saga shotgun