Most lethal 22lr round

[teratos]

Not really, that is a fallacy, except when comparing centerfire to rimfire .22. It is not the size of the bullet initially but the size after penetration that matters most. With current state of the art hollow points the bullet from a 9mm expands to a greater diameter than either a .40 or a .45 at their normal velocities firing the same kind of bullet (.68" with the 9mm and about .60 for the other 2). This is solely because the 9mm has greater velocity and therefore "works" the HP bullet design better. If the .40/.45 had higher velocity this would not be true. So from that you can rightly assume a 10mm would do even better than a 9mm and you would be correct for that bullet design. However I can't see anyone wanting to shoot a .45 230g HP round at 1200 FPS. Be like shooting a compact 44 Mag. Bullet design has more impact on lethality than the size of the bullet in almost every parameter.

Even in ball ammo the lethality of a .45 was only a little more than a 9mm in most cases. Before the advent of decent HP rounds the #1 most lethal round as studied by actual shooting for single shot incapacitations was the Winchester .41 Mag 175g Silvertip HP round. And this only showed up because many departments got issued S&W Mdl 58s for awhile. After that time it was surpassed as the most lethal by the Indiana State Police .357 mag 125g HP at 1325 FPS (the round the .357 Sig was designed to try and equal).

The point is the right tool for the right job. Even a .380 or a .32 HP round is better than a .22 under all conditions as long as the bullet can be placed in the right area.

Certainly faster bullets carry more energy. I Should have added that to the quoted post. I pointed that out earlier in the thread. In the end, it all comes down to energy transfer. Hollow points have been a revolution. Aerodynamic in flight, then flattens out. An aerodynamic projectile is designed to create less shock waves, in a way. That flattened surface of the hollow point once it mushroomed does it's job well. As you point out, there are many trade-offs. Bullet weight, velocity, capacity, portability, recoil etc.

 

[photoracer]

You asked about which ammo to recommend, so in keeping on topic;

^^The above ammo would be at the top of my list. Always test but both cycle well in my 10/22.

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There's been many references for .22's; here's another:

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldrepo...o-own-a-22lr-firearm-and-22lr-lethality/31904

Don't put much faith in most of that crap. Most of that stuff is ignorant people drawing the wrong conclusions from unscientific data. You don't want the bullet to stay intact and go thru a chicken at 300 yards because if you shot a person at that distance he would likely get irritated and come after you. What is lethal for a dead chicken at 300 yards is not lethal for a live human at even 30 yards.

 

[photoracer]

Certainly faster bullets carry more energy. I Should have added that to the quoted post. I pointed that out earlier in the thread.

Its not just the energy. Bullet design must take into account the velocity of the round and how that can aid the expansion of the bullet. Bullets tuned for 9mm don't work as well in larger diameter slower calibers, but they do work better than FMJ bullets at the same velocity. So while the .45 round does not expand as much as the 9mm it is heavier so the combination penetrates as much, it just does not get as big. Its a trade off because no one design works for everything. Used to be the favorite round of .45 carriers was the 230g Speer Lawman, the so-called "flying ashtray". Compared to other calibers the hollow point cavity looked larger enough that a bumblebee could land in it. But it did not really expand very much. People thought that it did not matter much if it did, which was correct up to that time anyway. In those days 9mm HP rounds were lucky to expand to .42 even and that was considered good. So a .45 was still more lethal. So to get a round to expand to .68 requires a very critical set of parameters. The velocity must be in a certain range. Too slow means not enough expansion and too fast it will likely come apart. So it must work in barrels from about 3.5" -5" so the burn rate of the powder must be such that the velocity is not that much effected by barrel length, maybe a range of 100 FPS at most. You would likely not want to load that bullet in a 38 Super, 357 Sig, or 9x23mm because the standard velocity of those rounds ranges from 1350-1460 FPS. 9mm usually fall in the 1150-1200 FPS range.
Nobody has come up with any kind of .22 LR HP round that will both expand reliably and feed reliably out of .22 pistols. 1235 FPS rated rounds usually go out of a 6" pistol at around 900 FPS which is not a good velocity for expansion of a bullet. And you can't jacket a .22 LR round either so all you get is lead bullets with a cavity in the nose. Too much cavity and they come apart and too little will not create expansion.

 

[JosephIV]

Get whatever ammo the 10/22 likes to eat that your loved one can shoot proficiently with. It's .22lr from a rifle, no guarantee that hi-zoot hollow point hyper whatevers will do what we hope they will do when hitting a winter coat, cotton shirt, and a 190 lb man. That's why GOD gave us 1 ounce slugs from a 12 gauge but you can make 25 rounds from the Ruger get the job done.

 

[teratos]

Its not just the energy. Bullet design must take into account the velocity of the round and how that can aid the expansion of the bullet. Bullets tuned for 9mm don't work as well in larger diameter slower calibers, but they do work better than FMJ bullets at the same velocity. So while the .45 round does not expand as much as the 9mm it is heavier so the combination penetrates as much, it just does not get as big. Its a trade off because no one design works for everything. Used to be the favorite round of .45 carriers was the 230g Speer Lawman, the so-called "flying ashtray". Compared to other calibers the hollow point cavity looked larger enough that a bumblebee could land in it. But it did not really expand very much. People thought that it did not matter much if it did, which was correct up to that time anyway. In those days 9mm HP rounds were lucky to expand to .42 even and that was considered good. So a .45 was still more lethal. So to get a round to expand to .68 requires a very critical set of parameters. The velocity must be in a certain range. Too slow means not enough expansion and too fast it will likely come apart. So it must work in barrels from about 3.5" -5" so the burn rate of the powder must be such that the velocity is not that much effected by barrel length, maybe a range of 100 FPS at most. You would likely not want to load that bullet in a 38 Super, 357 Sig, or 9x23mm because the standard velocity of those rounds ranges from 1350-1460 FPS. 9mm usually fall in the 1150-1200 FPS range.
Nobody has come up with any kind of .22 LR HP round that will both expand reliably and feed reliably out of .22 pistols. 1235 FPS rated rounds usually go out of a 6" pistol at around 900 FPS which is not a good velocity for expansion of a bullet. And you can't jacket a .22 LR round either so all you get is lead bullets with a cavity in the nose. Too much cavity and they come apart and too little will not create expansion.

Actually it is all about energy. It is about energy transfer into tissue which disrupts the central nervous system. Hollow point rounds give a greater leading surface area. A flat surface will push more energy into tissue than a stream-lined surface. Temporary and permanent cavitation as well as penetration are surrogates of how much energy the round carries and how well it is going to transfer the energy. If the design of a round does not allow for it to expand, that means it doesn't transfer as much energy. It is CNS disruption that drops a target, and this is what is desirable. Death 3 hours later is not helpful in a defensive situation. In studies, being hit ANYWHERE in the chest with a .308 drops the person immediately (see Page 6 of the paper below). This is likely with standard ball ammunition, since I believe they retrospectively looked at shootings in a military setting. One can't say the same for the best of hollow point pistol ammunition.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=jVPvOR53170-UK8SvJUwdw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.b2I

 

[SuperMag]

I was always taught it was hydrostatic shock that knocks down the target--not a nervous system effect. Hence the need for rapid dissipation of energy within the target.

 

[teratos]

I was always taught it was hydrostatic shock that knocks down the target--not a nervous system effect. Hence the need for rapid dissipation of energy within the target.

Half right. The hydrostatic shock, which rapidly dissipates into the tissues, overwhelms the central nervous system. Down you go.