Mobile 1 and STP oil additives

[Casey39r]

BSIAB

I know one of the pioneers in oil analysis.

He analyzed every oil additive out there, and found that at BEST, they did no harm. NONE did any more than good quality motor oil. Many actually are worse that good quality motor oil.

He called all of the BS In A Bottle. And offered to sell anyone his own REAL BSIAB, collected from REAL bulls.

Do what you want, but according to people who know, none of them are worth the time it took you to read the label.

Show me your tangible data that STP works better.

All that data is on the internet tested by a third party. STP have been known for many years to reduce metal on metal friction.

 

[jrumann59]

THe only additive cars need for oil is ZDDP because the EPA has rolled back the amount zinc and phosphorus emissions from cars for stupid reasons and blame crankcase oil as a being a major contributor.

 

[Casey39r]

It doesn’t really matter what oil or lubricant you use because they are all petroleum based products. Since we did not engineer these small arms weapons and we all did not put any engineering and scientific study on the many types of lubricants then it safe to say that your knowledge is purely academics, regurgitating what has someone heard and said. Any oil is good as long as it reduces wear on surface metal on metal contact.

 

[clandestine]

I always laugh at the people that post inflammatory comments.

All one has to do is look back at their post history and see they don't know Jack from Shit when it comes to working on and servicing guns. Hell one cant clear a gun without bearing the f out of it. That's some real Pro stuff.

 

[Combloc]

Agreed. I too get a chuckle out of the people who know far less than they think they do but their overinflated ego gets in the way. Some guys around here think they know more than engineers who have PHD's and have successfully made firearm and mechanical design their lives. I always grin at the folks who ignore facts, statistics and years of testing because those things don't agree with their silly little ideas. Yes sir, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[outrider58]

I always laugh at the people that post inflammatory comments.

All one has to do is look back at their post history and see they don't know Jack from Shit when it comes to working on and servicing guns. He'll one cant clear a gun without bearing the f out of it. That's some real Pro stuff.

Everything I know comes out of the SOTAR book. Now we're cookin' with peanut oil!

 

[Z_Man]

I cant help but comment sometimes, and this is just too much. For the milspec only gentleman, do you know which milspec (mil-prf-63460F is the latest), or any of the physical properties or performance requirements that are specified?

A mil spec is just that, a detailed list of requirements, and specific tests called out on how to verify, as well as how to package said product as well as some other details... Like color, specific chemicals it can or cannot contain etc.

If I remmber correctly off the top of my head, the actual requirements for lubrication are somethibg like 200 rounds through a m249 which fires 10 rounds to verify the fire rate is over 650 rounds per minute, then shot in short (5-8) round bursts till firing of 200 rounds. The gun is lightly or generously lubed (defined in spec) depending on which environmental test. 3 separate tests... One at -40F ( temp might be off) one after spending 2 hours in a sandblaster, and one after 96 hours of salt spray. Each test has a maximum number of stoppagages allowable to be considered a pass. (No class 1 stoppages, and no more than between 2 and 5, depending on test, type 2 or 3 stoppages)

The spec also calls out physical properties testing, friction tests, wear resistance, pour testing, flash point testing, cleaning tests and preservation tests on multiple materials, (steel, brass, aluminum magnesium and some other metal I cant remember off the top of my head).


Now to be mil spec the company would have to do all of thst specific teating. If you make gun lube and want to sell it to the military then you will do the testing. I would wager if you ran motor oil it would perform better that clp as a lubricant, yet it would probably not perform as well as a cleaner or preservant. However the mil spec is for clp, not lubricant, not cleaner, and not preservative, but all three

From my experience with lube and metal parts, the two most important things about it is 1) being where it needs to be, and 2) staying where it needs to be. The wrong lube will work longer than no lube, even if the lube eats at your parts.

Being where it needs to be is up to the user, and staying where it needs to be isnt even adressed in the mil spec. From my experience clp is not good at staying where it needs to. Its so thin it evaporates or spreads itself away. And me personally, doing mag dumps to 200+ rounds with my ar having more than 0 stoppages is a cause for me to evaluate the rifle, magazines, and check lubrication. Now I havent conditioned my rifle to -40, nor put it in a salt fog or a blown sand box nor are my rifles full auto.

With a semi auto, lubricant also helps migrate debris away from critical areas... carbon, copper, lead need to "ride" the lube away from your bolt, your breech, your firing pin, piston, etc.

My opinion is use whatever lube you want, just put as much of it as you can on the wear areas of your firearm... Cuz its dann near impossible to overlube your firearm.

If you don't need to wipe down the outside of your firearm multiple times to clean up after lubing up your weapon, you didnt lube it enough.


A good read is on the ar15 forum (yes I cheat on mds), the owner of a prominent machine gun range in vegas talks about long term (25k-100k+ round counts) machine gun usage, lubrication, ammo, etc. Which lubes they use, won't use, stuff like that. Very informative.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[vinjet700]

Time for a good ol' .45 vs 9mm vs .40 thread!

That’s an easy argument..10mm or go home.

.40 by a long shot

 

[clandestine]

Agreed. I too get a chuckle out of the people who know far less than they think they do but their overinflated ego gets in the way. Some guys around here think they know more than engineers who have PHD's and have successfully made firearm and mechanical design their lives. I always grin at the folks who ignore facts, statistics and years of testing because those things don't agree with their silly little ideas. Yes sir, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Go bang on some guns and take pics like you know what you are doing.

I'm sure the thread will get about 30 views and 3 posts.

 

[willtill]

Yep. Everyone thinks they're an "expert"


Love me an oil thread.

.

 

[outrider58]

I cant help but comment sometimes, and this is just too much. For the milspec only gentleman, do you know which milspec (mil-prf-63460F is the latest), or any of the physical properties or performance requirements that are specified?

A mil spec is just that, a detailed list of requirements, and specific tests called out on how to verify, as well as how to package said product as well as some other details... Like color, specific chemicals it can or cannot contain etc.

If I remmber correctly off the top of my head, the actual requirements for lubrication are somethibg like 200 rounds through a m249 which fires 10 rounds to verify the fire rate is over 650 rounds per minute, then shot in short (5-8) round bursts till firing of 200 rounds. The gun is lightly or generously lubed (defined in spec) depending on which environmental test. 3 separate tests... One at -40F ( temp might be off) one after spending 2 hours in a sandblaster, and one after 96 hours of salt spray. Each test has a maximum number of stoppagages allowable to be considered a pass. (No class 1 stoppages, and no more than between 2 and 5, depending on test, type 2 or 3 stoppages)

The spec also calls out physical properties testing, friction tests, wear resistance, pour testing, flash point testing, cleaning tests and preservation tests on multiple materials, (steel, brass, aluminum magnesium and some other metal I cant remember off the top of my head).


Now to be mil spec the company would have to do all of thst specific teating. If you make gun lube and want to sell it to the military then you will do the testing. I would wager if you ran motor oil it would perform better that clp as a lubricant, yet it would probably not perform as well as a cleaner or preservant. However the mil spec is for clp, not lubricant, not cleaner, and not preservative, but all three

From my experience with lube and metal parts, the two most important things about it is 1) being where it needs to be, and 2) staying where it needs to be. The wrong lube will work longer than no lube, even if the lube eats at your parts.

Being where it needs to be is up to the user, and staying where it needs to be isnt even adressed in the mil spec. From my experience clp is not good at staying where it needs to. Its so thin it evaporates or spreads itself away. And me personally, doing mag dumps to 200+ rounds with my ar having more than 0 stoppages is a cause for me to evaluate the rifle, magazines, and check lubrication. Now I havent conditioned my rifle to -40, nor put it in a salt fog or a blown sand box nor are my rifles full auto.

With a semi auto, lubricant also helps migrate debris away from critical areas... carbon, copper, lead need to "ride" the lube away from your bolt, your breech, your firing pin, piston, etc.

My opinion is use whatever lube you want, just put as much of it as you can on the wear areas of your firearm... Cuz its dann near impossible to overlube your firearm.

If you don't need to wipe down the outside of your firearm multiple times to clean up after lubing up your weapon, you didnt lube it enough.


A good read is on the ar15 forum (yes I cheat on mds), the owner of a prominent machine gun range in vegas talks about long term (25k-100k+ round counts) machine gun usage, lubrication, ammo, etc. Which lubes they use, won't use, stuff like that. Very informative.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Good post. You get no arguments from me.

 

[OLM-Medic]

I use Mobil 1 synthetic and it works. But I would use CLP or something if I had it. The bottom line is I want my gun to run wet and reliable. That's why I chose Mobil 1. It stays wet.

No matter what you like, we should all agree that that worst lube is one that doesn't last long. Something like Rem Oil with leave you with a dry BCG too quick.

 

[John from MD]

How about you guys who served in the sand box. Did you run your AR's dry? I'm familiar with the sand over there, just not in guns.

 

[inkd]

CLP. 3 lies in one.

 

[Combloc]

Go bang on some guns and take pics like you know what you are doing.

I'm sure the thread will get about 30 views and 3 posts.

As I once pointed out in the past (but you erased the post at the time because you were a mod and could do so), my write-ups have in excess of 300,000 view on the various forums I have posted them on. Some of the essays are "stickies" as well and I have been contacted by people from literally all over the world thanking me for my contributions to the hobby. I've dealt and consulted with the likes of Ian McCollum and Larry Vickers and even provided firearms for videos and had my photographs published in magazines. These things seem to bother you for some reason unknown to me but, oh well, that's just the way it will be I guess. I don't usually like to toot my own horn, but I'm proud of my work and I will continue to produce it simply because of the large amount of encouragement I've received over the years. With 300,000 plus hits, someone out there must be reading. Cheers!

 

[zoostation]

So what do you guys think, 30 years for historic tags or only a 25 minimum?

 

[BUFF7MM]

So what do you guys think, 30 years for historic tags or only a 25 minimum?

I’d say 40 would be better.

 

[Combloc]

I went for broke and got the 60 year permanents. Personally, I'm for a 25 year minimum.

 

[alucard0822]

There ya go with all that dagnab science and reality like you have experience managing fleets or something. My buddy's uncle knew a guy who drove the bus he used to ride to work who used to drink saltwater and olive oil then pissed on his guns. He went through 237,000 rounds without a single malfunction. Then he buried his gun in a creek and it didn't have a spot of rust on it when a sasquatch found it years later. It's true. It's on the internetz.

Still not as good as the tears of a melting snowflake, must be the patchouli oil content

 

[clandestine]

As I once pointed out in the past (but you erased the post at the time because you were a mod and could do so), my write-ups have in excess of 300,000 view on the various forums I have posted them on. Some of the essays are "stickies" as well and I have been contacted by people from literally all over the world thanking me for my contributions to the hobby. I've dealt with the likes of Ian McCollum and Larry Vickers and even provided firearms for videos. That seems to bother you for some reason unknown to me but, oh well, that's just the way it will be I guess. I don't usually like to toot my own horn, but I'm proud of my work and I will continue to produce it simply because of the large amount of encouragement I've received over the years. With 300,000 plus hits, someone out there must be reading. Cheers!

What forum would that be? You seem to hide who you are on here. Who are you, or is that a secret?

That post you refer to was one of many where you try and stir shit in my sub forum. Notice that I don't stir shit in your topics? I even have tried to offer advice in some of your threads. That concept is lost on you.

You appear to be a collector that enjoys documenting what you collect. Thats admirable, problem is you don't know your own lane. I know mine and it's technical. I have worked on almost everything, but I have focused my expertise and work on things I know best. I don't teach people to shoot, I'm not a reenactor, and I'm not a collector. I have no problem admitting what I don't know.

Do people contact you for technical gun advice? Have you ever worked on guns in a professional manner? If so for who because every post I have seen from you, you pay people to work on your guns. When they jam you beat the hell out of them to clear them. An experienced person wouldn't do that.

I think it's great that industry experts use your guns as teaching examples. I didn't know that before, and hat news does not stir any envy from me. I'm honestly happy for you.

When you talked tonIan did you tell him how you talked crap about his mud tests where the AR stomps other designs?