Maryland Shall Issue v. Hogan (HQL challenge) argument scheduled for 5/6

[Kicken Wing]

Good luck MSI. That is a great team of people that we have on our side. We could not ask for a better leader to take this on.

 

[tallen702]

Don't get your hopes up..if the HQL were unconstitutional states that have similar "permission slips" for purchase would have already been forced to do away with theirs. Just my opinion but this is just another misstep in the never ending saga of bad challenges to laws that will be upheld..

The biggest issue here is that the state is require you to outlay a not-insignificant amount of money to obtain an HQL and thus, is creating a "poll tax" on your rights. They are also denying access to a self defense weapon in common use by requiring you to have an HQL for ANY handgun purchase in state. This is directly at odds with Heller and the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

 

[Mark75H]

The biggest issue here is that the state is require you to outlay a not-insignificant amount of money to obtain an HQL and thus, is creating a "poll tax" on your rights. They are also denying access to a self defense weapon in common use by requiring you to have an HQL for ANY handgun purchase in state. This is directly at odds with Heller and the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

Incorrect, there are HQL exempt handguns

 

[whistlersmother]

Incorrect, there are HQL exempt handguns

His message is correct, so pointing out that C&R handguns are exempt seemed to be nitpicking....

 

[Mark75H]

Yes, his message is correct, except as you point out, the part of his message that is incorrect

 

[Steel Hunter]

Incorrect, there are HQL exempt handguns

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-firearms-are-considered-be-curio-and-relic-firearms

"Curio and relic firearms are defined as firearms which are of special interest to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons."

The ATF agrees that C&R are not adequate for self defense in most cases.

 

[Mark75H]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-firearms-are-considered-be-curio-and-relic-firearms

"Curio and relic firearms are defined as firearms which are of special interest to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons."

The ATF agrees that C&R are not adequate for self defense in most cases.

Are you willing to stand in front of a 51 year old 1911 and say that?

 

[Steel Hunter]

Are you willing to stand in front of a 51 year old 1911 and say that?

No, but that's hardly the point. The point is the intent of C&R status is for collecting items of historic or otherwise intrinsic value, not to defend yourself with. Don't argue away even more rights so willingly.

We don't need more fudds. Just because you "can" get a C&R does not make it as good as a modern handgun or rifle for defensive purposes.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Actually, in a first, scotus will have its hearing available shortly. Not sure which cases will be there, but it is getting attention. Or so abc is reporting

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sup...st-teleconference-arguments/story?id=70388138

I'm not sure why, SCOTUS doesn't allow this to happen.

It's the peoples' court after all.

 

[danb]

The fact that there are "HQL exempt" handguns and even shotguns is (or should be) irrelevant. There is simply nothing in the history, text, or tradition (by which I mean going back to the original scope of the 2A) that would allow a punitive "permit to purchase" schemes.

Now, I totally expect Frosh to argue just that- Self defense in the home is not implicated because {shotguns, C&R, rifles} etc. are a substitute. Whether the judges buy it and apply the proper level of analysis, is a different story.

 

[Mark75H]

The fact that there are "HQL exempt" handguns and even shotguns is (or should be) irrelevant. There is simply nothing in the history, text, or tradition (by which I mean going back to the original scope of the 2A) that would allow a punitive "permit to purchase" schemes.

Now, I totally expect Frosh to argue just that- Self defense in the home is not implicated because {shotguns, C&R, rifles} etc. are a substitute. Whether the judges buy it and apply the proper level of analysis, is a different story.

I agree. There is no "except" after "shall not be infringed."

The intent of 2A is total constitutional preemption.

 

[esqappellate]

Folks should understand that this appeal being heard on 5/6 is solely about our appeal from the district court's dismissal of the case on grounds of standing. The district court never reached the merits and the appeal does not turn on the merits. If we prevail on standing, then we go back to district court for summary judgment on the merits. Then there will be appellate proceedings from any ruling on summary judgment.

 

[teratos]

Are you willing to stand in front of a 51 year old 1911 and say that?

I wouldn't stand in front of a centuries old Blunderbuss either.

 

[Boxcab]

I wouldn't stand in front of a centuries old Blunderbuss either.

I learned to not second guess a weapons effectiveness when my friend Goliath took one to the noggin!







.

 

[Steel Hunter]

Folks should understand that this appeal being heard on 5/6 is solely about our appeal from the district court's dismissal of the case on grounds of standing. The district court never reached the merits and the appeal does not turn on the merits. If we prevail on standing, then we go back to district court for summary judgment on the merits. Then there will be appellate proceedings from any ruling on summary judgment.

Thanks for clarifying. Regardless of what happens, thank you for working through the process.

Edit: Stuck this quote in the first post to hopefully avoid/reduce any confusion.

 

[Kharn]

No, but that's hardly the point. The point is the intent of C&R status is for collecting items of historic or otherwise intrinsic value, not to defend yourself with. Don't argue away even more rights so willingly.

We don't need more fudds. Just because you "can" get a C&R does not make it as good as a modern handgun or rifle for defensive purposes.

And there certainly aren't enough to go around. An importer bringing in a thousand double-stack 9mms is a noteworthy haul that gets the cruffler world abuzz, Glock imports over a million pistols per year.

 

[whistlersmother]

I learned to not second guess a weapons effectiveness when my friend Goliath took one to the noggin!







.

Didn't realize you were quite the philistine.

 

[tallen702]

Folks should understand that this appeal being heard on 5/6 is solely about our appeal from the district court's dismissal of the case on grounds of standing. The district court never reached the merits and the appeal does not turn on the merits. If we prevail on standing, then we go back to district court for summary judgment on the merits. Then there will be appellate proceedings from any ruling on summary judgment.

Gotcha. I certainly hope they remand it right down that Judge's throat. IIRC she was pretty dismissive.

 

[danb]

Folks should understand that this appeal being heard on 5/6 is solely about our appeal from the district court's dismissal of the case on grounds of standing. The district court never reached the merits and the appeal does not turn on the merits. If we prevail on standing, then we go back to district court for summary judgment on the merits. Then there will be appellate proceedings from any ruling on summary judgment.

thanks for clarifying this.

 

[Kharn]

Is the panel's list of names available? I don't see it on 4CA's site.