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  • eodtim

    Active Member
    Mar 9, 2014
    148
    Linthicum, MD
    I submitted the following to the AACO Delegation;

    Anne Arundel County Delegation,

    I am writing in response to Senate bill SB 1062 and the House bill HB 0991. I want to discuss the decision to limit weapons magazines to 10 rounds. I believe several points are in order for you to understand why (a) this will not help save lives and (b) will actually make law abiding citizens into law breakers.

    As a point of education it is important you know that the Columbine shooters used ONLY 10 round magazines. I would like to take a moment to explain that this is overcome by minimal training that can be done in one’s living room, basement or back yard. Practicing magazine reloads does not require actually firing the weapon. The two Columbine shooters trained.

    You should be asking why 10 rounds? How many bullets are needed statistically to stop several bad guys? Is it 10 rounds per bad guy, 10 rounds per every three bad guys? How many rounds per threat and how many threats were used to determine this number? Someone needs to explain the data and information used to come to the determination the magic number is 10 rounds required to defend yourself. Just this past week a man with an AR held off several suspects at night in Houston. The bad guys shot over 40 rounds at the man and he injured three of them. This incident, one of many reinforces the AR is good for home defense and that multiple bullets are/can be needed. Bad things usually happen at night and involve multiple assailants. There is no more sickening feeling than needing a bullet and not having a bullet. Especially, when defending your home and family.

    These bills will not sustain constitutional challenge. Amendment 14 of the US Constitution states “…nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” The legislation is removing property from law abiding citizens that have done nothing wrong in an attempt to provide a solution that will not work to a problem still not understood.

    In a number of cases dealing with the 14th Amendment, the Court has continued to limit state action claims against private individuals. This WILL meet that standard as there has been no due process. Legislation is NOT due process and this legislation seeks to indict many of that have lawfully owned these products. “Procedural due process” guarantees fairness to all individuals. This fairness might require different elements to the accused, including the opportunity to be heard, given notice, and be given a judicial decision with a stated rationale. As a basic rule, the more important the right, the stricter the procedural process must be. This will meet that stricter definition.

    This bill will negatively impact my “liberty” and “right to property”. There is a political desire on the part of some legislators to remove weapons and since they cannot do that they want to go after enablers. The fact that this bill in no way protects anyone materially or substantially makes the case for the 14th Amendment.

    The Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is one of the most litigated sections of the Constitution. As a brief overview, the clause refers to the fact that all citizens of the United States are guaranteed equal protection under the laws of the United States. This bill violates my rights under this clause. The bill assumes that it will positively affect the safety of the majority of people at the expense of the people who own 30 rounds magazines for rifles and 15 round magazines for pistols. In fact this adds no positive benefit and negatively impacts owners of these types of magazines. This negative impact reinforces our injury under the Equal Protection Clause.

    A major second order affect that has not been thought about is those who have security clearances. The passing of this bill makes everyone who has a banned item a criminal. This will impact a large segment of those in Maryland who work in the industrial complex with and without clearances. These are the people who are the tax base for this state and especially D32. I am sure they will not be happy that they have been made bad guys and their professions placed in jeopardy for a bill that literally solves nothing.

    Can we not have real research into our cultural issues that make a boy want to shoot all of his classmates? The gun did not do that. Could it be we are over medicated, have too much violence in EVERY aspect of our entertainment industry, lack of father figures, on and on? This is a heart problem not a gun problem. Over 99% of gun owners never commit a crime so please do not turn them into criminals and your enemy.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,639
    Loudoun, VA
    bottom line is they really don't care, just doing whatever, anything they can to at least look like they're doing something. they know damn well criminals don't follow laws and there are millions and millions of AR's and 30 round mags out there that ain't going to go away. they don't like guns, they don't want guns, they don't think the 2A is needed or applicable in our current society, and if they even get just one single gun off the streets via their new onerous legislation, they're happier than they are now.

    why don't they go after alcohol and cell phones (distracted driving) and even knives? serious question; how many innocents lose their lives to these annually, and why not do EVERYTHING we can to reduce those losses? easy answer, they provide a benefit to the anti's so they're not going to go after them.

    that's the hard reality. we either have to out-vote them and/or convert some of them (take a friend or co-worked to the range for some fun).
     

    GOG-MD

    Active Member
    Aug 23, 2017
    366
    AA County
    Here here! Well said, Tim. I reached out to all my representatives and senators, but this is better than what I wrote.
     

    94hokie

    Active Member
    Mar 29, 2015
    832
    Severna Park, MD
    I like it and have used that argument against several people. I would just point out that one of the four weapons they used did have over 10 round mags, but only accounted for about 25% of the shots that they fired.
     

    DubTap21

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2013
    551
    Silver Spring
    I just received this from Vah Hollen:

    This month we saw another senseless act of gun violence take the lives of our nation’s children. We must do everything in our power to stop this horror. How many more shootings will it take before Congress stops talking and takes action? This issue shouldn’t be political—it should be about doing everything we can to prevent the loss of another child, another parent. It should be about saving another town like Parkland from the grief of a mass shooting and relieving cities like Baltimore from the daily toll of gun violence.

    Inaction is complicity—it’s as simple as that. That’s what I’m telling my colleagues, and I hope you’ll tell your friends, family, and neighbors the same. With over 90 percent of Americans saying they want action, the GOP leadership’s refusal to consider measures that are proven to save lives is gross negligence.

    The list of common sense measures is clear: close the gun show loophole and implement universal background checks; plug the gaps in the current reporting systems for instant background checks; improve our mental health system and our ability to prevent individuals who pose a risk to themselves and others from obtaining firearms; ban semi-automatic assault weapons like the AR-15; limit the number of rounds in magazines; implement a licensing system modeled after the Maryland law; outlaw bump stocks; and eliminate the law that shields the gun industry from lawsuits for wrongdoing. All of these measures are consistent with the Second Amendment, and we must not rest until we address gun violence in a meaningful way.

    Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk
     

    JPG

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 5, 2012
    7,068
    Calvert County
    A major second order affect that has not been thought about is those who have security clearances. The passing of this bill makes everyone who has a banned item a criminal. This will impact a large segment of those in Maryland who work in the industrial complex with and without clearances. These are the people who are the tax base for this state and especially D32. I am sure they will not be happy that they have been made bad guys and their professions placed in jeopardy for a bill that literally solves nothing.

    THIS is something that should be pointed out every time someone talks to the legislature. All of a sudden people can lose their clearances/jobs because of no fault of there own.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,471
    Montgomery County
    THIS is something that should be pointed out every time someone talks to the legislature. All of a sudden people can lose their clearances/jobs because of no fault of there own.

    Of course the gun-grab types would simply point out that there would be a period of public notice which would give all of those thousands of Marylanders time to give up their property before they become criminals. This will sound reasonable to those who've already demonstrated their irrationality on the subject more broadly.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 2, 2017
    33,290
    Sun City West, AZ
    I just received this from Vah Hollen:

    ...and eliminate the law that shields the gun industry from lawsuits for wrongdoing. All of these measures are consistent with the Second Amendment, and we must not rest until we address gun violence in a meaningful way.

    Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

    Just addressing this point alone from Van Hollen is in complete violation of all legal liability law and practices. It changes centuries old legal principles of strict liability to absolute liability. All the law in question addresses is keeping gun makers from the long standing principle of not being liable from illegal acts committed by others with a legal product...like guns, cars, knives, hammers, etc. Changing it to a principle of absolute liability makes the gun makers, auto makers, knife makers, hammer makers, et al, liable for the criminal acts of other using a legal product that operated as designed without defect.

    The law Van Hollen talks about was designed from the beginning to make gun makers liable and able to be bankrupted by lawsuits from victims of crime. Existing strict liability laws cover injuries occurring from defective products...the same as any other consumer product.
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,575
    I just received this from Vah Hollen:

    This month we saw another senseless act of gun violence take the lives of our nation’s children. We must do everything in our power to stop this horror. How many more shootings will it take before Congress stops talking and takes action? This issue shouldn’t be political—it should be about doing everything we can to prevent the loss of another child, another parent. It should be about saving another town like Parkland from the grief of a mass shooting and relieving cities like Baltimore from the daily toll of gun violence.

    Inaction is complicity—it’s as simple as that. That’s what I’m telling my colleagues, and I hope you’ll tell your friends, family, and neighbors the same. With over 90 percent of Americans saying they want action, the GOP leadership’s refusal to consider measures that are proven to save lives is gross negligence.

    The list of common sense measures is clear: close the gun show loophole and implement universal background checks; plug the gaps in the current reporting systems for instant background checks; improve our mental health system and our ability to prevent individuals who pose a risk to themselves and others from obtaining firearms; ban semi-automatic assault weapons like the AR-15; limit the number of rounds in magazines; implement a licensing system modeled after the Maryland law; outlaw bump stocks; and eliminate the law that shields the gun industry from lawsuits for wrongdoing. All of these measures are consistent with the Second Amendment, and we must not rest until we address gun violence in a meaningful way.

    Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

    NO party lines here. These measures are consistent with his version the Second Amendment
     

    Sealion

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    May 19, 2016
    2,711
    Balto Co
    If I see "common sense" one more time, I'm going to puke.

    Every building Van *hole goes into is protected with security. How is that the conversation isn't about creating a secure environment for our children and not punishing all law-abiding gun owners?
     

    danimalw

    Ultimate Member
    Then let's fight fire with fire. He spreads lies and yet very little recourse....

    What if everyone repeated that van hollen condones liberal legislators performing fellatio on barnyard animals on Tuesdays at 1:38:59pm if dressed as a clown (based on he has [probably] never made a statement condemning that act. After all who would actually make that statement?? But one could draw conclusion that if he doesn't condemn it, he condones it).
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,962
    Marylandstan
    I submitted the following to the AACO Delegation;

    Anne Arundel County Delegation,

    I am writing in response to Senate bill SB 1062 and the House bill HB 0991. I want to discuss the decision to limit weapons magazines to 10 rounds. I believe several points are in order for you to understand why (a) this will not help save lives and (b) will actually make law abiding citizens into law breakers.

    As a point of education it is important you know that the Columbine shooters used ONLY 10 round magazines. I would like to take a moment to explain that this is overcome by minimal training that can be done in one’s living room, basement or back yard. Practicing magazine reloads does not require actually firing the weapon. The two Columbine shooters trained.

    You should be asking why 10 rounds? How many bullets are needed statistically to stop several bad guys? Is it 10 rounds per bad guy, 10 rounds per every three bad guys? How many rounds per threat and how many threats were used to determine this number? Someone needs to explain the data and information used to come to the determination the magic number is 10 rounds required to defend yourself. Just this past week a man with an AR held off several suspects at night in Houston. The bad guys shot over 40 rounds at the man and he injured three of them. This incident, one of many reinforces the AR is good for home defense and that multiple bullets are/can be needed. Bad things usually happen at night and involve multiple assailants. There is no more sickening feeling than needing a bullet and not having a bullet. Especially, when defending your home and family.

    These bills will not sustain constitutional challenge. Amendment 14 of the US Constitution states “…nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” The legislation is removing property from law abiding citizens that have done nothing wrong in an attempt to provide a solution that will not work to a problem still not understood.

    In a number of cases dealing with the 14th Amendment, the Court has continued to limit state action claims against private individuals. This WILL meet that standard as there has been no due process. Legislation is NOT due process and this legislation seeks to indict many of that have lawfully owned these products. “Procedural due process” guarantees fairness to all individuals. This fairness might require different elements to the accused, including the opportunity to be heard, given notice, and be given a judicial decision with a stated rationale. As a basic rule, the more important the right, the stricter the procedural process must be. This will meet that stricter definition.

    This bill will negatively impact my “liberty” and “right to property”. There is a political desire on the part of some legislators to remove weapons and since they cannot do that they want to go after enablers. The fact that this bill in no way protects anyone materially or substantially makes the case for the 14th Amendment.

    The Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is one of the most litigated sections of the Constitution. As a brief overview, the clause refers to the fact that all citizens of the United States are guaranteed equal protection under the laws of the United States. This bill violates my rights under this clause. The bill assumes that it will positively affect the safety of the majority of people at the expense of the people who own 30 rounds magazines for rifles and 15 round magazines for pistols. In fact this adds no positive benefit and negatively impacts owners of these types of magazines. This negative impact reinforces our injury under the Equal Protection Clause.

    A major second order affect that has not been thought about is those who have security clearances. The passing of this bill makes everyone who has a banned item a criminal. This will impact a large segment of those in Maryland who work in the industrial complex with and without clearances. These are the people who are the tax base for this state and especially D32. I am sure they will not be happy that they have been made bad guys and their professions placed in jeopardy for a bill that literally solves nothing.

    Can we not have real research into our cultural issues that make a boy want to shoot all of his classmates? The gun did not do that. Could it be we are over medicated, have too much violence in EVERY aspect of our entertainment industry, lack of father figures, on and on? This is a heart problem not a gun problem. Over 99% of gun owners never commit a crime so please do not turn them into criminals and your enemy.

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::mdpatriot
     

    jollymon

    Active Member
    Dec 6, 2016
    852
    Now in Tennessee ,
    They have never cared one bit about your Right's and Liberty's it's all about their Agenda and Power Base , We gun owners get in the way of that .
    Remember they said they'll never let a "Good crisis go to waste " so we'll be pushing the stone up hill forever ,
    Or till the day we collectively find the balls the Founding Fathers had when they had enough .
     

    Dirichlet

    Active Member
    Jan 3, 2013
    333
    While I appreciate your letter and I agree with your sentiments, I will simply say your efforts are falling on deaf ears. They don't care. They don't care that they're stomping on the constitution. They don't care that they'll be depriving you of legally acquired property without due process or compensation. They don't care that many people could lose their careers. And they don't care that many tens of thousands of residents will be instantly turned into criminals with the stroke of a pen.

    They are ideologues. To them, the ends (total power and control over a "gun-free" society) justify the means... any means. In their minds if you don't agree with them on EVERYTHING you're the enemy, and they're using the government that they largely control to squash you. And, when you're either in jail or have been completely deprived of your ability to defend yourself, they will have what they want... and it's won't end well for anybody.
     

    DubTap21

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2013
    551
    Silver Spring
    Concur, it makes you wonder how one can fight individuals like that. I shows he doesn't care what people like us think. Makes me :mad54:
    He definitely doesn't care. They won't stop until their agenda is met. There's a certain tree that needs watering soon.

    Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk
     

    THier

    R.I.P.
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 3, 2010
    4,998
    Muscleville
    I ; and eliminate the law that shields the gun industry from lawsuits for wrongdoing. All of these measures are consistent with the Second Amendment, and we must not rest until we address gun violence in a meaningful way.

    Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

    Funny, this law doesn't blame the gun,,,, but the human aspect.

    BUT

    When the sicko acts, they dont blame the human aspect,,, they blame the gun
     

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