Long Gun Purchases and the October 1 Deadline

[Gbh]

From Joe Getty:

 

[sixfivesavage]

I knew this, but will you be subject to the new application requirements to take delivery? Still not a clear answer for me.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Now the question is what is a "purchase order" and an "application"? I sent a Letter to MSP on that issue June 18th and have not heard back yet. Please don't bother trying to define it for me as we all have different definitions. The question is what will MSP requirements be for those two documents to be recognized.

However I do this clearly lays to rest the idea what an FFL will not be able to transfer one of these firearms post Oct, 1... so long as the purchase, purchase order or application has already been made.

 

[Robert1955]

For long guns I don't think there are any new requirements besides the banned items. Pistols on the other hand require the license to pick up or buy after 10/1.

 

[lx1x]

I knew this, but will you be subject to the new application requirements to take delivery? Still not a clear answer for me.

This.. the assault rifles is clear . Not so much with handgun qualified license.

 

[Ab_Normal]

I see a lucrative business for dealers offering 'purchase options' before 10/1.

They could be like stock options for executives that can be redeemed at a later date.

 

[Name Taken]

I would like to see Mr. Getty's letter. I'd be overly surprised if he asked a question that simple.

 

[swinokur]

The dealer must also have the firearm in stock before 10-1. He can't just collect pre Oct 1 purchase orders and then sell them after 10-1

 

[Bang]

The dealer must also have the firearm in stock before 10-1. He can't just collect pre Oct 1 purchase orders and then sell them after 10-1

For the sake of a lively discussion, where does it say that in his response and/or where are you getting this from?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

For the sake of a lively discussion, where does it say that in his response and/or where are you getting this from?

I don't believe his statement is correct. I think I will write to the AG since MSP can't reply in a timely manner.

 

[Boom Boom]

The dealer must also have the firearm in stock before 10-1. He can't just collect pre Oct 1 purchase orders and then sell them after 10-1

What's required is a paid purchase order prior to October 1st, presumably paid in full with a dated receipt. Paying in full establishes solid ownership prior to Oct 1st no matter how long it takes to get the gun. I would avoid just putting down a deposit, since a deposit can be twisted by the AG as not constituting a valid sale if final payment occurs after Oct 1st.

 

[Ranchero50]

Looks like it's time to bend Mr. Bowen's ear about the MSP delays...

 

[swinokur]

For the sake of a lively discussion, where does it say that in his response and/or where are you getting this from?

From SB 281:

(2) A LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER MAY CONTINUE TO POSSESS, 1
SELL, OFFER FOR SALE, OR TRANSFER AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR A COPYCAT 2
WEAPON THAT THE LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER LAWFULLY POSSESSED ON OR 3
BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2013. 4

This allows FFL's to sell existing stock but not order or receive new stock.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

What's required is a paid purchase order prior to October 1st, presumably paid in full with a dated receipt. Paying in full establishes solid ownership prior to Oct 1st no matter how long it takes to get the gun. I would avoid just putting down a deposit, since a deposit can be twisted by the AG as not constituting a valid sale if final payment occurs after Oct 1st.

The law says nothing about "paid" purchase order. It says purchase order. It also does not say paid in full. Paying in full does not establish solid ownership. There are plenty of people who paid in full and then were denied by MSP or Nics and they don't have ownership.

 

[Boom Boom]

Paying in full does not establish solid ownership.

To the contrary, it creates a binding legal contract making you the owner once it's ready to ship. If you want to assume our AG will not use SB281 to screw you 100x over and then some given any opportunity, then go for it. I will not make that mistake.

 

[Boom Boom]

From SB 281:
This allows FFL's to sell existing stock but not order or receive new stock.

Fulfillment of a pre-Oct 1st purchase order for a specific buyer (hence why paid-in-full upfront is important) is very different than a dealer placing a stocking order to be received and offered for general sale after Oct 1st.

 

[Mr H]

The dealer must also have the firearm in stock before 10-1. He can't just collect pre Oct 1 purchase orders and then sell them after 10-1

This is correct.

I wish more people would read the legislation.

As to the letter, it does clarify the long gun situation, but does nothing to address the handgun problem.

We need someone to get clarification on whether someone with a gun in limbo as of 10/1 has to obtain the HQL before taking possession.

My gut feeling is that MSP Leadership is trying to run out the clock on as many folks as possible, then further delaying them by adding the HQL hoop to jump through.

Note that we STILL don't know what a "properly" submitted HQL app will look like!

ETA: Unconfirmed, but... If you are awaiting delivery of a firearm with a magazine that would be restricted after 10/1, you may be well-served to get the mag(s) from the dealer ahead of time, if it's looking like the gun itself won't get to you before 10/1.

 

[AwesomeBill]

So, lets say I were to order a "banned" item today, but the manufacturer is 6 months backlogged. Lets even say that I pay in full today and have verifiable proof. They complete my item and ship it to my FFL in December. The thinking is that I can not take possession as the item was not in my FFL's possession previous to Oct. 1st.

Am I correct?

 

[honda53s]

For the sake of a lively discussion, where does it say that in his response and/or where are you getting this from?

Well how would a dealer send your application in without a gun serial number?

 

[swinokur]

Fulfillment of a pre-Oct 1st purchase order for a specific buyer (hence why paid-in-full upfront is important) is very different than a dealer placing a stocking order to be received and offered for general sale after Oct 1st.

Thye law clearly states if the firearm is not in the possession of the FFL before Oct. 1 then it's is illegal to sell after Oct. 1 You can parse it any way you like. If the FFL didn't possess it before Oct 1, it's not legal to sell even with a pre Oct. 1 PO.

If you order an in stock firearm before Oct 1, it's legal to pick it up after Oct. 1. That's the only legal exception.