loaded mags in a separate bag

[swinokur]

If you're permitted to carry, then you're okay in your scenario, otherwise, how are you going to have time to access your firearm and load it, even if your mags are loaded and in the same bag? The law says your gear can't be accessible to the driver of passengers, and not in the glove box or console.

Because that's federal law, not state law. It's legal to have your loaded gun in the passenger compartment in many states, included being loaded even without a permit. Some allow OC with no permit as well.PA,VA do as an example. I'd have to check WV and DE. As I said, you only need to comply with FOPA if the state you're in has more stringent laws than your origin and destination state. Many states allow passenger compartment carry. The gun doesn't do you much good locked in the trunk if it doesn't legally have to be.

Why not have your firearm available any place it's legal to do so?

The MD AG has issued an opinion stating that if both your origin and destination are both in MD, FOPA does not apply. But additionally if a state you are driving into allows unlicensed carry in the passenger compartment like PA or VA, then you also don't need to comply with FOPA either. Opinion attached.

 

[Minuteman]

Good discussion. This is one of the most commonly asked questions.

Looks like 'our' answers are getting more concise now.

 

[swinokur]

Here is FOPA:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Here is MD 4-203

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources–sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

If a state has a law allowing unlicensed carry either OC or in the passenger compartment, then neither FOPA or MD code applies.

 

[swinokur]

As a matter of fact, here's another opinion from the AG specifically stating his opinion that FOPA doesn't even apply in MD at all if your origin or destination is MD. I don't agree with the opinion but he did state this.
.
.

 

[TTMD]

I agree, this is a good discussion, the legal part is difficult enough to understand, much less try to explain with clarity in a class of people who are just beginning.

So Swinokur, to sum it up & see if I'm understanding it the way you're explaining, FOPA only applies in MD if you're traveling through MD without stopping, and furthermore, if you're start & stop points are both within MD, then of course MD law prevails, & since MD law doesn't explicitly state that a firearm must be out of reach (only that it should be unloaded & cased or in a flapped holster), then it's not illegal per se to carry the firearm within reach of the driver or a passenger. Is this your understanding?

Thanks again.

 

[swinokur]

Yep. But in MD you must be engaged in one of the allowed activities stated in 4-203, ie. going to the range, gun shop, shooting demo, etc. You cannot just drive around with the firearm in your vehicle.

As an example, when I drive to the NRA range in VA, I drive per MD law. When I get to VA, I can legally load my firearm, and either OC it or put it in my glovebox. Both legal. I have a VA NR permit so I can even conceal it.

All this is just my interpretation. IANAL. Consult an attorney for real legal advice, not forum posts.

 

[TTMD]

Yep. But in MD you must be engaged in one of the allowed activities stated in 4-203, ie. going to the range, gun shop, shooting demo, etc. You cannot just drive around with the firearm in your vehicle.

As an example, when I drive to the NRA range in VA, I drive per MD law. When I get to VA, I can legally load my firearm, and either OC it or put it in my glovebox. Both legal. I have a VA NR permit so I can even conceal it.

All this is just my interpretation. IANAL. Consult an attorney for real legal advice, not forum posts.

Ok thanks. I've got the 4-203 activities down, and also talk about the added benefit of designated collector status, and I also start & end everything in my class with the IANAL,-get-your-own disclaimer. Thx again.

 

[swinokur]

When I travel, I always consult both handgunlaw.us and the state AG site for the carry laws. Not all states allow glovebox or OC. Ignorance is not a legal defense.

Each state has their own laws on disclosing to LE that you are carrying.

ETA www.usacarry.com is also a good site but only the state site should be used for the actual laws.

Again, those sites do a good job but are not the definitive law

IANAL

 

[adit]

Because that's federal law, not state law. It's legal to have your loaded gun in the passenger compartment in many states, included being loaded even without a permit. Some allow OC with no permit as well.PA,VA do as an example. I'd have to check WV and DE. As I said, you only need to comply with FOPA if the state you're in has more stringent laws than your origin and destination state. Many states allow passenger compartment carry. The gun doesn't do you much good locked in the trunk if it doesn't legally have to be.

Why not have your firearm available any place it's legal to do so?

The MD AG has issued an opinion stating that if both your origin and destination are both in MD, FOPA does not apply. But additionally if a state you are driving into allows unlicensed carry in the passenger compartment like PA or VA, then you also don't need to comply with FOPA either. Opinion attached.

http://deloc.org/

Yes

 

[jomill613]

Sounds good to me. I personally keep all my ammo out of mags when I'm going to the range just in case. Back in pa its a little different...

 

[swinokur]

What is "just in case?" Loaded mags are completely legal. Pre loading them saves time. Having them unloaded doesn't make them "more legal."

 

[pbharvey]

Is an enclosed holster defined?
It seems like a truly enclosed holster would be one with a full flap on top.

 

[swinokur]

yes. see attached.
.
.

 

[TTMD]

Good discussion. This is one of the most commonly asked questions.

Looks like 'our' answers are getting more concise now.

This is an awesome thread! It's forced me to read through much of the actual statute language, and resulting COMAR regs, and the addition of the various AG opinion letters is a great help. It's one thing to trust someone and their answers, but it's another to be able to trace responses to the actual language that allows or disallows things. Teaching home firearm safety and handgun familiarity and operation is one thing, but accurately teaching the legal component of an HQL class is not nearly as simple!

Not that we SHOULD HAVE to do this. I don't recall who, but I agree with the person who has the signature line which reads something along the line of "The Second Amendment is my permit."

 

[swinokur]

I think the Nuge may have said it.