Legal to carry

[Stoveman]

If it is, can you cite that law for me? As I said, if you can show me written evidence, I will recant everything I said.

Again you're missing the point. Everything is legal until a statute says that it isn't. You're dense, but at least you're persistent.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Any hypothetical action is Legal , unless it is illegal . There is not , and never can be a complete and universal enumeration of every possible Legal action or activity .

 

[mvee]

But you stop transporting it when you leave it unattended in the vehicle. Transporting entails moving something from one place to another. The W&C exception allows the permit holder to transport firearms anywhere (something unpermitted people can't do). It does not address effectively storing a firearm in a vehicle.

What do you think a permit holder would be charged with if they left an unattended pistol in their car?

 

[Rab1515]

Again, Maryland laws prohibit all transport with limited exceptions. If you choose to store your firearm in your vehicle, then by all means, do so. Until I see something clarifying that, I'm sticking with the conservative approach.

Transport is not storage. So unless you can cite a Maryland statute making storage in vehicles illegal, storing a firearm in a vehicle is legal.

 

[Stoveman]

I haven't sen anything like this since the Anita Bryant concert.

 

[Defense Rifle]

Guys, great discussion on this thread. I really appreciated the logical thinking and laws being cited.

I do see valid points on both sides of the argument. After reading all that it's hard for me to discern whether it is legal or not to keep an unloaded handgun in an unattended vehicle, because the moment you do leave the vehicle one could argue you are no longer "transporting" it; however I don't know if the definition of transporting has been defined. Because even if I made a brief stop I could argue that I'm still 'en route' to my destination, so not sure how broad the word transporting is.

What I do know is every man has to think and do for himself and the safety of himself and/or family. Maryland gun control laws put your lives at risk.


Hypothetical Scenario: If you are in a dangerous area and have to stop for gas/restroom/whatever, is it really a wise idea to leave an unattended handgun in the vehicle? And risk getting yourself hurt or robbed and possibly your gun stolen from your car? Given how bad things are in Baltimore. Again every man should think for himself and safety. The government cannot save your life, and you only have one life.


The real issue here is Maryland is a POS state that needs to be heavily sued until these draconian restrictions and ambiguities are removed.

 

[THier]

You are only semi-correct, because a permit holder is allowed to wear or carry anywhere the permit states. When the permit holder is no longer wearing or carrying the the gun, that permit holder is subject to the exact same transportation laws as non-permit holders because he is transporting a firearm, not wearing or carrying it. Here is an example. I have an unrestricted permit. I can wear or carry anywhere in Maryland not prohibited by law. If I am on my way to teach an HQL or W&C class and I leave my gun bag with unloaded handguns I am not wearing or carrying in my car while I go into a store or restaurant, I am breaking the law because I am neither wearing nor carrying those guns. The permit only covers wearing or carrying. If you are not wearing or carrying the gun you are transporting it.

Going back to the OP’s question... if he puts that Mossberg Shockwave in a backpack and he leaves his vehicle with the backpack, he is fine because the gun is being carried. The unattended Shockwave in the vehicle is not being worn or carried, therefore his permit does not impact the fact that he has transported that gun to a prohibited location.

I don’t know how to make it more simple than that.

Wait,,,

So,, if I am legally carrying, and want to go to post office, park in lot NEXT to PO OFF the PO property, I lock my pistol in a portable safe while I go into the PO I have just broken the law? (Officially)?

 

[Stoveman]

Wait,,,

So,, if I am legally carrying, and want to go to post office, park in lot NEXT to PO OFF the PO property, I lock my pistol in a portable safe while I go into the PO I have just broken the law? (Officially)?

According to the guy who teaches this stuff, yes. But from those of us who don't need an FAQ to know what is legal, no.

 

[dblas]

If you read what I wrote, that is not the same argument. Maryland bans ALL transport apart from listed exceptions. If it is not listed in the exceptions, then I won't do it and I certainly won't teach it.

So, would you agree that, under Maryland law, those locations that are permitted, are locations where you remove your firearm from your vehicle?

 

[Nickberg500]

I'm just amazed that lawmakers can use pieces of paper to declare some shotguns as pistols. Astounding.

 

[Biggfoot44]

No, Shockwave type firearms are NOT shotguns under Federal or State law . The legal definition of a Shotgun includes * designed to be fired from the shoulder * . "Normal" pistol grip only ( shotgun- like devices ) with barrels over 18 inches are not shotguns either


They are " Other Firearms " . Under Federal law the relevant factor is OAL over 26in ( plus other fine print ). The recent change in Maryland law reclassified all firearms with barrel under 16in , regardless of OAL , as Regulated aka de facto Handgun . Previously the longstanding Maryland statute had 14 inches as part of the definition of Handgun ( plus additional fine print ) .

Yeah , I know ,confusing gobbledy gook , and in another setting I could tell about past practices that would be even more head scratching today .

 

[Norton]

Statute? Remember, in Maryland, all transportation of firearms on public highways and lands is illegal. You may only transport by exception and I see no exceptions for stopping somewhere and having your guns unattended.

That's just not a true statement when you use the word firearms.

Change that sentence to read handguns and you get closer to the truth.

 

[Sealion]

Ugh, this thread hurts my brain.

 

[Rab1515]

No, Shockwave type firearms are NOT shotguns under Federal or State law . The legal definition of a Shotgun includes * designed to be fired from the shoulder * . "Normal" pistol grip only ( shotgun- like devices ) with barrels over 18 inches are not shotguns either


They are " Other Firearms " . Under Federal law the relevant factor is OAL over 26in ( plus other fine print ). The recent change in Maryland law reclassified all firearms with barrel under 16in , regardless of OAL , as Regulated aka de facto Handgun . Previously the longstanding Maryland statute had 14 inches as part of the definition of Handgun ( plus additional fine print ) .

Yeah , I know ,confusing gobbledy gook , and in another setting I could tell about past practices that would be even more head scratching today .

I could be wrong, but how does MD Pub Safety Code § 5-101 play into this? I believe a shock wave has a barrel length of 14ish inches and would therefor be a handgun in MD?

MD Pub Safety Code § 5-101 (2017)

(a) In general. -- In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.
(b) Antique firearm. -- "Antique firearm" has the meaning stated in § 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article.
(b-1) Convicted of a disqualifying crime. --
(1) "Convicted of a disqualifying crime" includes:
(i) a case in which a person received probation before judgment for a crime of violence; and
(ii) a case in which a person received probation before judgment in a domestically related crime as defined in § 6-233 of the Criminal Procedure Article.
(2) "Convicted of a disqualifying crime" does not include a case in which a person received a probation before judgment:
(i) for assault in the second degree, unless the crime was a domestically related crime as defined in § 6-233 of the Criminal Procedure Article; or
(ii) that was expunged under Title 10, Subtitle 1 of the Criminal Procedure Article.
(c) Crime of violence. -- "Crime of violence" means:
(1) abduction;
(2) arson in the first degree;
(3) assault in the first or second degree;
(4) burglary in the first, second, or third degree;
(5) carjacking and armed carjacking;
(6) escape in the first degree;
(7) kidnapping;
(8) voluntary manslaughter;
(9) maiming as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 386 of the Code;
(10) mayhem as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 384 of the Code;
(11) murder in the first or second degree;
(12) rape in the first or second degree;
(13) robbery;
(14) robbery with a dangerous weapon;
(15) sexual offense in the first, second, or third degree;
(16) home invasion under § 6-202(b) of the Criminal Law Article;
(17) an attempt to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (16) of this subsection; or
(18) assault with intent to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (16) of this subsection or a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year.
(d) Dealer. -- "Dealer" means a person who is engaged in the business of:
(1) selling, renting, or transferring firearms at wholesale or retail; or
(2) repairing firearms.
(e) Dealer's license. -- "Dealer's license" means a State regulated firearms dealer's license.
(f) Designated law enforcement agency. -- "Designated law enforcement agency" means a law enforcement agency that the Secretary designates to process applications to purchase regulated firearms for secondary sales.
(g) Disqualifying crime. -- "Disqualifying crime" means:
(1) a crime of violence;
(2) a violation classified as a felony in the State; or
(3) a violation classified as a misdemeanor in the State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years.
(h) Firearm. --
(1) "Firearm" means:
(i) a weapon that expels, is designed to expel, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; or
(ii) the frame or receiver of such a weapon.
(2) "Firearm" includes a starter gun.
(i) Firearm applicant. -- "Firearm applicant" means a person who makes a firearm application.
(j) Firearm application. -- "Firearm application" means an application to purchase, rent, or transfer a regulated firearm.
(k) Fugitive from justice. -- "Fugitive from justice" means a person who has fled to avoid prosecution or giving testimony in a criminal proceeding.
(l) Habitual drunkard. -- "Habitual drunkard" means a person who has been found guilty of any three crimes under § 21-902(a), (b), or (c) of the Transportation Article, one of which occurred in the past year.
(m) Habitual user. -- "Habitual user" means a person who has been found guilty of two controlled dangerous substance crimes, one of which occurred in the past 5 years.
(n) Handgun. --
(1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) "Handgun" includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.
(o) Handgun qualification license. -- "Handgun qualification license" means a license issued by the Secretary that authorizes a person to purchase, rent, or receive a handgun.
(p) Licensee. -- "Licensee" means a person who holds a dealer's license.
(q) Qualified handgun instructor. -- "Qualified handgun instructor" means a certified firearms instructor who:
(1) is recognized by the Maryland Police and Correctional Training commissions;
(2) has a qualified handgun instructor license issued by the Secretary; or
(3) has a certification issued by a nationally recognized firearms organization.
(r) Regulated firearm. -- "Regulated firearm" means:
(1) a handgun; or
(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:
(i) American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine;
(ii) AK-47 in all forms;
(iii) Algimec AGM-1 type semi-auto;
(iv) AR 100 type semi-auto;
(v) AR 180 type semi-auto;
(vi) Argentine L.S.R. semi-auto;
(vii) Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semi-auto;
(viii) Auto-Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semi-automatics;
(ix) Barrett light .50 cal. semi-auto;
(x) Beretta AR70 type semi-auto;
(xi) Bushmaster semi-auto rifle;
(xii) Calico models M-100 and M-900;
(xiii) CIS SR 88 type semi-auto;
(xiv) Claridge HI TEC C-9 carbines;
(xv) Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle;
(xvi) Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, aka AR 100, 110C, K-1, and K-2;
(xvii) Dragunov Chinese made semi-auto;
(xviii) Famas semi-auto (.223 caliber);
(xix) Feather AT-9 semi-auto;
(xx) FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle;
(xxi) FNC semi-auto type carbine;
(xxii) F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun;
(xxiii) Steyr-AUG-SA semi-auto;
(xxiv) Galil models AR and ARM semi-auto;
(xxv) Heckler and Koch HK-91 A3, HK-93 A2, HK-94 A2 and A3;
(xxvi) Holmes model 88 shotgun;
(xxvii) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format;
(xxviii) Manchester Arms "Commando" MK-45, MK-9;
(xxix) Mandell TAC-1 semi-auto carbine;
(xxx) Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun;
(xxxi) Sterling Mark 6;
(xxxii) P.A.W.S. carbine;
(xxxiii) Ruger mini-14 folding stock model (.223 caliber);
(xxxiv) SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber);
(xxxv) SKS with detachable magazine;
(xxxvi) AP-74 Commando type semi-auto;
(xxxvii) Springfield Armory BM-59, SAR-48, G3, SAR-3, M-21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand;
(xxxviii) Street sweeper assault type shotgun;
(xxxix) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats;
(xl) Unique F11 semi-auto type;
(xli) Daewoo USAS 12 semi-auto shotgun;
(xlii) UZI 9mm carbine or rifle;
(xliii) Valmet M-76 and M-78 semi-auto;
(xliv) Weaver Arms "Nighthawk" semi-auto carbine; or
(xlv) Wilkinson Arms 9mm semi-auto "Terry".
(s) Rent. -- "Rent" means the temporary transfer for consideration of a regulated firearm that is taken from the property of the owner of the regulated firearm.
(t) Secondary sale. -- "Secondary sale" means a sale of a regulated firearm in which neither party to the sale:
(1) is a licensee;
(2) is licensed by the federal government as a firearms dealer;
(3) devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of earning a profit through the repeated purchase and resale of firearms; or
(4) repairs firearms as a regular course of trade or business.
(u) Secretary. -- "Secretary" means the Secretary of State Police or the Secretary's designee.
(v) Straw purchase. -- "Straw purchase" means a sale of a regulated firearm in which a person uses another, known as the straw purchaser, to:
(1) complete the application to purchase a regulated firearm;
(2) take initial possession of the regulated firearm; and
(3) subsequently transfer the regulated firearm to the person.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Yes, I thought I said that in second paragraph .

Yes, since Oct 1, 2017 they have been treated in Maryland as Handguns .

It punishes the majority of owners as specifically intended by MGA , but ironically is to the advantage of those owners who also have a W&C .

 

[ralph.mclean]

False. There is nothing prohibiting someone from keeping an unloaded unregulated long gun in their vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But Marylandistan classifies the Shockwave as a pistol....

And an unloaded gun is just a club or a paperweight.

 

[ralph.mclean]

If our politicians knew what they were doing, we'd be in trouble...

 

[Andybrown]

Just carry what we do down here:

 

[Blaster229]

It was still never answered.......... What is the charge for leaving a pistol left unattended in your vehicle if you have your Wear and Carry permit or carrying under LEOSA?

 

[teratos]

It was still never answered.......... What is the charge for leaving a pistol left unattended in your vehicle if you have your Wear and Carry permit or carrying under LEOSA?

I can't imagine there is one. The only thing they could hit you with is not reporting the theft within 72 hours of discovering it. They are the ones who put the restrictions on there. I was told that I should put the gun in my trunk if I had to go to a restricted place by my interviewer.