Lead

[Dick Chaney]

Went out today and was given 2 five gallon buckets of wheel weights. Now I have to learn how to cast my own bullets. It reminded me of going around town looking for the kids Christmas gifts and finding it at the store.

How much work have I gotten myself into. Any info on equipment will be helpful.

Was told glock 17 don't do well shooting cast any info?


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[ken792]

With wheel weights, you have to mix and test your own alloys. They vary greatly in their composition (some don't even have lead), so you can't simply melt a handful and know what you're getting.

It's not recommended to shoot cast bullets in Glocks because their polygonal rifling exerts more pressure on the bullet than traditional rifling. Apparently it causes heavy leading real quick which becomes a big issue when you then switch back to jacketed rounds. I believe you can get aftermarket Glock barrels with traditional rifling to shoot cast bullets.

 

[stu929]

Many people shoot lead in glocks but it is typically for more advanced reloaders as the powder and bullet hardness can have a big effect on leading.

I too am interested in shooting lead in my glock but I haven't ordered any pills because I dont want to find out 50 rds into a 1k order they will lead my barrel. I will eventually shoot lead through my glock but I am not confident enough to do it yet.

Through my reading I have heard a slightly oversized bullet performs better as it does not allow gases to escape as much and forms to the barrel better but again I this is reading only as I have not done it myself....yet

 

[ken792]

Get a muzzleloader to take advantage of that free lead. They're the easiest to cast for.

 

[stu929]

Buy a 1911 and shoot for almost free!

 

[Atlasarmory]

Buy a 1911 and shoot for almost free!

This

 

[jayc0968]

If you lose interest in that idea, I'll take that lead off your hands. My XD eats cast all day...

 

[Dick Chaney]

If I'm figuring this correct I can make close to 3000 9mm or 1500 45.

The idea or dream is to shoot 45.

I hope they can stop zombies.


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[Deep Creek Rock]

OP, you will need to seperate non lead alloy wheel weights. Do not get zinc or zinc alloy wheel weights into your lead alloy. Rest assured some of those weights will be zinc or steel, as they are becoming more common.

If you are using propane or a high temp electric melter, you do run the risk of melting one of the zinc weights down. This will ruin your batch of lead alloy, and you will have to discard it. Steel weight wont melt, but they are useless for bullet casting.

One reason why I always recommend the Lee 4-20 melter- it will not get hot enough to melt a zinc weight (they just float to the top of the pot). In that case you can use pliers, or your scooper and put them into your junk pile.

Look at the weight you got. Discard any stamped "Fe" which is steel. Discard any stamped/marked Zn - that is a Zinc weight. There is also a Zinc lead alloy weight (commonly used on Chrysler new moder cars). Those are stamped "Pb ZN" Throw those out.

If the wheel weight has the clip riveted to the weight (as opposed to the clip being casted into the weight)- its useless junk metal. Stick on weights can be used, and mixed with your regular wheel weight, if they are lead, and not stamped Zn or Fe.

Painted lead alloy wheel weight can be used, the paint will burn off, and the ash will float to the top - but its very stinky!

If you are in doubt if the weight is lead or zinc or steel, a couple easy tests you can do. Tap on the weight with pliers (or throw it on concrete floor) if it thuds, its probably lead. If it "clangs" or "tings" - its probably steel or zinc.

You can also use a set of diagonal cutters, and nip the edge of the weight. If it cuts fairly easy - its usable lead alloy. If you cannot get the cutter through the edge, or have to bust a gut to do it - its junk.

After a while you will learn whats usable and not usable by just looking at the weight!

 

[zoostation]

Don't use unjacketed lead bullets in a Glock, it is dangerous. With the polygonal rifling it can lead to an overpressure situation and kaboom.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Went out today and was given 2 five gallon buckets of wheel weights. Now I have to learn how to cast my own bullets. It reminded me of going around town looking for the kids Christmas gifts and finding it at the store.

How much work have I gotten myself into. Any info on equipment will be helpful.

Was told glock 17 don't do well shooting cast any info?


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The first trick is to sort all of that stuff and see if you even end up with enough "lead" to bother melting down. Good luck. I'd love to see how many pounds of lead you actually end up with.

 

[wgttgw]

The side cutters are the best technique prior to the melt for separating zinc. Zinc is very problematic to your alloy and melts close to the temperatures used in casting/smelting. If you get a thermometer and keep the temp below 700 degrees the zinc won't melt anyway. The infrared thermometers have not worked for me. the surface of the lead is just to reflective. I have even attempted to float a penny on the surface but that too did not work all that well. You need a thermometer with a probe which can be submerged. This is a good back up to presorting with the side cutters and can ensure 100% no zinc is present in the finished alloy.

I recommend new casters get your smelting set up before you get an electric casting pot. Smelting is dirty and is tough on your casting pot especially a bottom pour. You can ladle cast out of the smelting pot until you get a electric bottom pour casting post. Personally I would not smelt WW in my casting pot. I would get a steel or iron pot and a gas heat source.

As far as actual lead content of your buckets of WW. I would suspect that would depend on how old they are. Even just a few years ago the lead content was fairly high. If they were mine it would be worth my time to sort them.

 

[mstraus]

I am with wgttgw, I sort my buckets first and scrap the non usable WW's. Then smelt them in a pot over Propane burner. Skim the slag, flux with clean wax (always a nice fire for a min) then pour into small muffin tins. Make approx 1lb ingots. Then when ready to cast i use my Lyman electric melter pot and ladle adding one or two ingots to refill. that reduces the reheat time and keeps my temp consistent. Always preheat your molds and soot them with a match to ease release of bullet. the first few pours will be junk till to you get the mold up to temp. just remelt them in pot. if you have to stop for a min place the mold on the edge of the pot to keep the temp up but if to long you may have to pour some junk to get it back up to temp. Also lube the mold joints with some wax. works great.

 

[Dick Chaney]

Thank you for the responses

I will have to get a set up to do the first melt down and make 1 lb ingots.

Sorting will have to wait till Sunday.

I also have a few more shops to hit up. Besides wheel weights where else can I look and what is enough. Should I look for already shot lead.


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[wgttgw]

Any lead is good lead. I prefer to buy it in its original form not in ingots unless I trust the source. For me WW are highly desirable so I value them more than some other types. Isotope cores (I believe that is what they are called) that are use to ship hazardous medical supplies is great as well. They are composed much like WW but are more consistent in there tin and antimony content. Lead shot is good and similar to WW in what it can be used in. Lead pipe is near pure. Lead flashing is pure but smelt the any solder joints separate as they contain tin. Plumbing ingots are pure. Linotype printing lead is great for alloying your pure lead.

It really is all about what you are loading. Pure lead is good for muzzle loaders and shotgun slugs. WW or similar can work for most anything. Lino can mix with pure and make WW or Lyman #2 depending on the ratio. WW can be mixed with pure to extend your lead stash.

First step in finding it is to let every one you know you are looking for it. You would be surprised how much I get just because friends and family know I want it. I have bought it at yard sales, auctions, and scrap yards.

I would highly recommend this book. In my opinion it is the very best information on cast bullets minus load data. Best news it is very graciously offered for free by its authors.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

 

[Pinecone]

Don't use unjacketed lead bullets in a Glock, it is dangerous. With the polygonal rifling it can lead to an overpressure situation and kaboom.

Source?

Only thing I have heard of is leading problems. Maybe if you are so dense, you shoot thousands of rounds without checking for leading.

From Wiki:

The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets. Firearms expert and barrel maker, the late Gale McMillan, has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix. Neither H&K nor Kahr explicitly recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, suggesting that there might be an additional factor involved in Glock's warning. Kahr's warns that lead bullets can cause additional fouling[7] and recommends special attention to cleaning after their use. While H&K doesn't insist on a copper jacket, at least one well-documented catastrophic incident in an H&K pistol[8] may be related to this issue. Furthermore, Dave Spaulding, well-known gun writer, reported in the February/March 2008 issue of Handguns Magazine that when he queried H&K about their polygonally rifled barrels that they commented: "It has been their experience that polygonal rifling will foul with lead at a greater rate than will conventional rifling."

From other forums:

Here is my experience: I've shot about 25,000 cast lead bullets through Glock 40's with stock barrels (23, 27, and 35). I never hot rodded with lead bullets in the stock barrel, and generally stuck to middle or lower end loads using Unique and other medium speed powders.

When switching bullets or loads, I'd do some testing to see how many rounds I could fire before leading started to build up. With good bullets, I could get to ~150 rounds before I felt the leading was going beyond "minor." The lead bullets worked fine for me in the stock barrels.

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD SHOOT LEAD BULLETS IN THEIR GLOCKS.

I have many times! When you're first getting started with lead bullets check your bore frequently for leading. After awhile, and with a little acquired experience, you’ll know what to expect, and for how long you can shoot BEFORE stopping to brush out the barrel.

 

[Pinecone]

Any info on equipment will be helpful.[/URL]

It seems no one bothered to answer this.

I have had good luck with the Lee lead pots. Get a bottom pour pot, their small one is 10 pounds, their big one is 20 pounds.

For molds, get the Lee aluminum molds to start with. Aluminum molds are easier to cast with. They heat up faster and stick less.

You really should have some way to size the bullets. Again, Lee makes an inexpensive sizing kit that uses your press. But you will need to use a liquid lube or similar. The traditional sizers from RCBS and Lyman use a stick lube that is forced into the grooves when you size the bullet.

You can also go old school and use a kake kutter. For this method you stand up the bullets in a shallow flat bottom pan, the closer the bullets the better. The melt stick lube and pour into the pan, up to just over the top groove. Let the lube cool and harder, then cut out the bullets using a piece of tubing with a sharpened edge. The tube doesn't have to be perfect fit on the bulet, but should be close. The next time, just put new bullets in the holes from the last batch and heat up the pan, adding a little more lube.

You typically size lead bullets 0.001" larger than the size of the jacketed bullets you would shoot. So for .45 ACP .452" is typical.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Thank you for the responses

I will have to get a set up to do the first melt down and make 1 lb ingots.

Sorting will have to wait till Sunday.

I also have a few more shops to hit up. Besides wheel weights where else can I look and what is enough. Should I look for already shot lead.


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Not sure where you are located, but, if you have any metal recyclers in your area check them out. Call them and find out what their price is on scrap lead. Local places here are getting $0.75 / pound

I still want you to let us know what your total was out of those two 5 gallon buckets of useable lead. I am just curious. Nothing more.

 

[zoostation]

Source?

Only thing I have heard of is leading problems. Maybe if you are so dense, you shoot thousands of rounds without checking for leading.

From Wiki:



From other forums:

My source is the manufacturer who actually built the gun.

 

[Traveler]

My source is the manufacturer who actually built the gun.

While I agree with you zoostation, how many manuals these days are written by the corporate lawyers, rather than the engineers that made something?