Laws regarding target shooting on private property

[cueman01]

I was wondering if it were legal to target shoot guns on Carroll County Private Residential property? Does anyone know any laws or regulations regarding this?

Thanks.

 

[omalon]

I think it depends on how much land, closest neighbor, and the type of gun being shot.

 

[Russ D]

and if you invite me over.

 

[novus collectus]

I looked for this before and struck out which suggests to me there are no county codes about this. However, there are county sound ordinances you should be careful about.

http://ccgovernment.carr.org/ccg/code/mainMenu.asp?function=browse

 

[Magnumite]

"However, there are county sound ordinances you should be careful about."

Hence, suppressors.

 

[madmattmd]

The standard 150 yard set back from a dwelling or occupied building is in force (State law). Of course, a sufficient backstop or berm of some type would have to be in place.

If you do shoot on private property, it would be prudent to approach your closest neighbors and let them know what you're doing. Otherwise, you will receive a visit from the Sherriff or Staties (you still may get a visit). If you're shooting safely (set back, sight lines, sufficient backstop/berm), you should be OK. If not, prepare for lawyer time.

Also, as previously stated, sound levels will be an issue. That has shut a range in the County and will always be an issue.

It may be more of a hassle than it's worth to shoot on your property, depending on how much land you have and your particular neighbors. Issues with shooting on private land is what prompted the Carroll County Sportsmen's Association to get the County to build the Hap Baker Range. The Goober factor with unsupervised discharging of a firearm on private property has made it very difficult for those that shoot safely.

Matt Guilfoyle
President, CCSA

 

[madmattmd]

I stand corrected on the setback requirements. I talked to a couple of people and there is no setback requirement. The 150 yards I quoted is for hunting (too much Hunter Safety stuff in my head).

But, I would reiterate the need for a safe backstop/berm to shoot into. Errant rounds flying around will not make neighbors happy.

Matt

 

[travistheone]

if your neighbors don't complain then nothing will come of it

 

[Fodder4Thought]

I looked for this before and struck out which suggests to me there are no county codes about this. However, there are county sound ordinances you should be careful about.

http://ccgovernment.carr.org/ccg/code/mainMenu.asp?function=browse

If sound levels are an issue, does anyone know whether it's legal to build a permanent suppressor? I don't mean that the way it sounds - not permanently attached to the gun, but something that lives permanently attached to a stand or the shooting bench that will absorb some of the expanding gasses, into which you can put the muzzle of your gun.

eg. I build something out of some copper or steel piping (or whatever I decide is a good idea) that, when the gun's muzzle is inside it, acts to dampen some of the report. It is NOT attached to the firearm in anyway, and may be permanently mounted to a bench or a lever arm, making it effectively a piece of furniture. Kind of like those pay-to-view binoculars they have at scenic views and such.

Does this fall under the same regulations as a firearm-attached suppressor, or is it something else?

Also, I totally call dibs on the patent, so hands off.

 

[novus collectus]

If sound levels are an issue, does anyone know whether it's legal to build a permanent suppressor? I don't mean that the way it sounds - not permanently attached to the gun, but something that lives permanently attached to a stand or the shooting bench that will absorb some of the expanding gasses, into which you can put the muzzle of your gun.

eg. I build something out of some copper or steel piping (or whatever I decide is a good idea) that, when the gun's muzzle is inside it, acts to dampen some of the report. It is NOT attached to the firearm in anyway, and may be permanently mounted to a bench or a lever arm, making it effectively a piece of furniture. Kind of like those pay-to-view binoculars they have at scenic views and such.

Does this fall under the same regulations as a firearm-attached suppressor, or is it something else?

Also, I totally call dibs on the patent, so hands off.

I was actually talking with jmira about this very thing today and I have been wondering this for a very long time. The law states in the definition.....

(24) The terms "firearm silencer"
and "firearm muffler" mean any device
for silencing, muffling, or diminishing
the report of a portable firearm,
including any combination of parts, designed
or redesigned, and intended for
use in assembling or fabricating a firearm
silencer or firearm muffler, and any
part intended only for use in such assembly
or fabrication.

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)
any weapon (including a starter gun)
which will or is designed to or may
readily be converted to expel a projectile
by the action of an explosive; (B)
the frame or receiver of any such
weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device.
Such term does not include an
antique firearm.

So as I read it, if the device to reduce sound is not portable, then it is not a "firearm" because it is not a silencer which is a "firearm".
However, I am far from a lawyer and all I can say for sure is this is something worthwhile asking the firearms technology branch of the ATF to see what they say about this. Please do not try this without a decision or determination from the ATF firearms technology branch.
However, I am willing to bet they say a silencer box which is not portable is not a "firearm".

 

[ripper157]

Isn't that essentially what they have you shoot through at Hap Baker? The box as it was explained to me is to direct and reduce muzzle report.

 

[Fodder4Thought]

I spent a good chunk of today on the phone with the Bureau of All Things Fun and I should have something to report on this front in the not too distant future. I'll also start a new thread with some of the more useful numbers I got at some point.

Oh yeah - and the thread about magazine feed lip modification that I was going to post a few weeks ago.

Damnit. So much to do.

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

A buddy of mine used to live where the Walmart in Severn is now, He/We shot back there all the time No issues.

 

[Fodder4Thought]

This is the email I sent to the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch on Wednesday, after being told that all questions must be sent in writing:

I've spoken with people at both the Hyattsville and Baltimore branches, as well as with people at the NFA Branch, but no one could answer me and I was eventually told to email my question:

My (limited) understanding is that for a thing to be classified as a suppressor it must be portable, attachable to the firearm, reduce the gun's report by 2 dB or more and be intended to act as a suppressor (eg. not a muzzle brake, even though it might incidentally reduce report slightly). I recognize that my understanding is far from complete.

Here's the scenario:

If I own property on which it is legal to shoot but doing so makes too much noise for my liking, is it legal for me to construct a large object that is permanently attached to either a shooting rest or bench, or perhaps even permanently attached to the ground itself and is not attached (or attachable) to a firearm in any way whatsoever if that object is intended to reduce or redirect the report of the firearm?

For example: If I've got a range on my property that meets all legal requirements, can I stack 6-10 truck tires in a row on a table so that if I aim down the middle of the stack a decent quantity of the report will be contained or redirected by the tires without breaking any laws? Can I construct a table/bench to which the tires would be permanently affixed? Can I use something smaller than truck tires? How small can it get before it qualifies as portable? What about lawnmower or wheelbarrow tires? What if I construct something along the same lines as a conventional suppressor using the same materials, but it differs from conventional suppressors in that A) It cannot ever be attached to a firearm and B) it is permanently attached to something else, like a wall or a post that's buried in the ground?

Thank you for your time - I look forward to your response.

Hopefully this will yield concrete answers (that are in a shooter's favor) - everyone else I asked either said "You need to talk to Branch X" or "That's the craziest question anyone's ever asked me, and you need to talk to Branch X."

I caught my mistake about the suppressor (one of 'em, anyway), by the way - it's about being for a portable firearm, not about the suppressor being portable. Then again, I was told that these are the guys that actually make policy, so maybe something good will come out of it.

 

[novus collectus]

This is the email I sent to the ATF's Firearms Technology Branch on Wednesday, after being told that all questions must be sent in writing:




Hopefully this will yield concrete answers (that are in a shooter's favor) - everyone else I asked either said "You need to talk to Branch X" or "That's the craziest question anyone's ever asked me, and you need to talk to Branch X."

I caught my mistake about the suppressor (one of 'em, anyway), by the way - it's about being for a portable firearm, not about the suppressor being portable. Then again, I was told that these are the guys that actually make policy, so maybe something good will come out of it.

...but in the definitions a silencer is a "firearm" too.

 

[Fodder4Thought]

...but in the definitions a silencer is a "firearm" too.

Right - I'm not sure how that works. Does that mean that a suppressor in a pocket is a concealed weapon?

 

[novus collectus]

Right - I'm not sure how that works. Does that mean that a suppressor in a pocket is a concealed weapon?

The 18 USC does not cover concealed weapons laws and so therefore the defintion of firearm in 18 USC does not affect other laws dealing with concealed weapons or their definition of "weapon" or "firearm".

 

[Fodder4Thought]

The 18 USC does not cover concealed weapons laws and so therefore the defintion of firearm in 18 USC does not affect other laws dealing with concealed weapons or their definition of "weapon" or "firearm".

Ah. Stupid laws that call things that they aren't unless they are something that another law says they sometimes are. Unless they're not.

 

[Biggfoot44]

What you are referring is generally called a baffle. Very little to no actual noise reduction. What you hopefully do is redirect sound.

 

[novus collectus]

What you are referring is generally called a baffle. Very little to no actual noise reduction. What you hopefully do is redirect sound.

....but still might be under consideration of the ATF and still worth asking about.