Lathe for general gunsmithing?

[GunBum]

I don't understand this comment. Could you explain what the width of the headstock has to do w/ anything?

You can’t hold one end of the barrel in a 4 jaw and the other end at the outboard end of your headstock in a spider if the headstock is wider than the barrel is long. The whole purpose of needing a big through hole on a lathe for gun smithing is so you can handle the barrel inside the through hole.

 

[GunBum]

And, for those of you offering advice, we need to see pictures of your lathe or links to work you’ve done.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=250426

 

[smdub]

You can’t hold one end of the barrel in a 4 jaw and the other end at the outboard end of your headstock in a spider if the headstock is wider than the barrel is long. The whole purpose of needing a big through hole on a lathe for gun smithing is so you can handle the barrel inside the through hole.

FWIW, You can put a spider inside the headstock. No matter how short a headstock is there will always exist a short and skinny enough workpiece that whip is an issue. I'll take a big headstock through hole any day over a short (width) one. Though that isn't really a gun smithing need.

No pics on hand but I have 6 lathes. The biggest is a professionally ground/scraped/turcited Sheldon R15 w/ a headstock hole you can darn near fit your arm down, a Clausing 6300, 3 med/small CNCs, and the smallest is a *TINY* Manson Duo Lathe watchmakers lathe (w/ a *NOT* tiny fortune in tooling.)

There is some very nice old American Iron out there for a very good deal compared to new. It will likely be larger/heavier though. Heck, you can get a decent Monarch 10EE for $5k. One thing to watch for is that some older American lathes can't thread metric easily. My Clausing 6300 is very hard to convert. To swap the (optional) metric gear set on you have to remove a ton of stuff first. Hour+ of work each way. Forget that! The Sheldon is very easy and exposed on the outboard end under the cover.

 

[GunBum]

How do you adjust a spider buried inside the headstock?

 

[Joseph]

I had to lookup the ManSon Duo lathe. Man that thing is neat . There is a nice writeup about them on the lathes.co.uk web site. It makes my tiny Levin watchmakers lathe seem huge by comparison.

 

[smdub]

How do you adjust a spider buried inside the headstock?

You attach it to the work piece first and slide the whole assembly through the headstock. It's not all that different than putting a round bushing on an octagonal barrel so you can use a steady rest. I think they are all technically called catheads.

Heck, my goto solution for a whipping workpiece is just to wrap a rag around it and shove it into the headstock like a boat's stuffing box. Most anything thin enough to whip is flexible enough the chuck will hold it straight and centered and you just need to restrain the other end to prevent workpiece damage or harmonic vibrations.

 

[GunBum]

You attach it to the work piece first and slide the whole assembly through the headstock. It's not all that different than putting a round bushing on an octagonal barrel so you can use a steady rest. I think they are all technically called catheads.

Heck, my goto solution for a whipping workpiece is just to wrap a rag around it and shove it into the headstock like a boat's stuffing box. Most anything thin enough to whip is flexible enough the chuck will hold it straight and centered and you just need to restrain the other end to prevent workpiece damage or harmonic vibrations.

The purpose of supporting the barrel on both ends when doing precision chamber work isn’t to eliminate whip. Some crumpled up paper towels will do that, like you stated. The purpose of using a spider, or cats head, or whatever anyone wants to call it is to get the bore to run true at both ends, so you can have a better chance of getting the chamber reamed true. People have written articles and books ad nauseum on the subject because the chuck isn’t always sufficient to hold a barrel straight.

 

[smdub]

People have written articles and books ad nauseum on the subject because the chuck isn’t always sufficient to hold a barrel straight.

This can be true for little lathes (or worn machines.) If you need to apply pressure at the other end of a barrel to get a chuck to run true there is a problem somewhere. If you aren't applying pressure w/ the spider/cathead then all it is doing is preventing whip.

There are also people who have written articles and books ad nauseum about floating reamer holders vs rigid setups each saying the other side is completely wrong Its a religious war like oil brand or glock vs 1911.

 

[Slackdaddy]

That IS true on many many items,,,
I imagine you would really have to know your machine if looking used.

Yeah, I've seen all that old junk past it's prime too. Most of the time all that old stuff is worth just enough to be in the way and take up space somewhere else instead of the scrap yard a few more years

 

[GunBum]

There are also people who have written articles and books ad nauseum about floating reamer holders vs rigid setups each saying the other side is completely wrong Its a religious war like oil brand or glock vs 1911.

I attend the “get the barrel as straight as possible, and use the floating reamer holder as cheap insurance” church.

 

[smdub]

I attend the “get the barrel as straight as possible, and use the floating reamer holder as cheap insurance” church.

Amen!

I think a lot of gun folks don't actually (or can't) measure the hole they reamed. Almost all chambers are tapered which makes it darn near impossible anyway w/o a CMM. Common calipers sure as heck can't do it. I had to ream a 1/2" ID, ~2" deep flat bottom hole to replace a corroded bijur oil pump in the Sheldon's apron (Bijur no longer made the model I needed so I had to make another from scratch.) It is **VERY** hard to ream a hole even that shallow w/o a couple tenths of taper. Since it was straight wall its at least possible gauge w/ hand eqiupment (I have a complete set of diatest split ball gauges.) I learned more about precision reaming in that one job than I had ever known. Took a couple retries a couple different ways (and different machines and different style reamers) but I finally got an acceptable bore. In the end I think the one I did on the mill was the keeper as the drill/bore/ream operations could be done w/ the spindle w/ everything else locked down.

 

[wbw2123]

Bumping this up. I have a chance to get a running reed-prentice 14B for free but the 4x8' footprint has me second guessing whether I really 'need' it taking up that much space in my limited garage shop. What do you guys think?

 

[smdub]

It's hard to turn down a free lathe if its in good shape Prob weighs close to 3000#. Can't believe you don't have a lathe yet So useful! Its an older lathe so wont turn super high rpm for using carbide optimally on small diameter stuff but it would be a workhorse for anything else. Going to need a fairly decent sized VFD to run it (if you don't already have a rotary converter.) Prob about 5hp motor? Also, it probably won't thread metric but there are ways around that.

 

[wbw2123]

It's hard to turn down a free lathe if its in good shape Prob weighs close to 3000#. Can't believe you don't have a lathe yet So useful! Its an older lathe so wont turn super high rpm for using carbide optimally on small diameter stuff but it would be a workhorse for anything else. Going to need a fairly decent sized VFD to run it (if you don't already have a rotary converter.) Prob about 5hp motor? Also, it probably won't thread metric but there are ways around that.

You pretty much hit all the points. I've been renovating my old and now new houses for basically the last three years- finally sold the old house and built a big garage at the new place. Still have a 8" swing lathe and j head at work so I haven't been super pressed yet. That's part of why I'm debating this so much.

Pros:
Free
Shop is a 6" slab and I can borrow a gantry to move it. Fork truck where it's at now
Big enough to do anything I realistically should
I can probably wait for and get a replacement 230v motor also free
I have a leftover 15hp 230v vfd sitting under the workbench so I'm good to 7.5hp 1ph. It's 5hp
FREE

Cons:
48x96 means I lose a parking bay
It's 460 so needs a motor swap.
It tops out at 560 rpm and the gear set doesn't like more
It's dated 1943 navy property so it's probably not super tight. They've been turning machinery shafts with it so it can't be too bad though
The ways aren't hardened
Unknown function on the taper attachment
The head oil system takes a weekend to service.
It won't thread metric

So, the biggest questions for gunsmithing. How limiting is 560rpm and no carbide, can I rig a way to do stainless for suppressors? Also, I haven't done any research on threading metric with a vintage machine so what kind of pain am I looking at there? And lastly how annoyed am I going to be with this honker sitting there when I need to turn something like a sterling mark iv barrel nut?

 

[smdub]

Oh, I forgot you told me once you could do stuff at work. I think you mentioned all the house work when we were at Welder's swap meet too.
460V sucks if its not dual voltage. Though surplus 480V VFDs are fairly cheap and you can step up 240V (wire a 240:240V isolation transformer like an autotransformer) to feed it 480V 1ph.
You can still run carbide at slower speeds, it just under utilizing it. Might as well go w/ HSS unless you just want to use inserts. ~500rpm is slow for small shafts and/or aluminum.
No metric is a PITA. I end up using taps/dies on the Clausing a lot. I use the shaft of the tailstock to start the die holder square. Taps are easy to start straight w/ a T handle that has a center divot. You MIGHT be able to retrofit a metric set of change gears (ideally 100:127 but there are lower ratios that are darn close (37:29?)) if the access to the geartrain driving the leadscrew is on the end of the shaft/accessible.
But its free... Tough call.

 

[Neutron]

I have a Southbend 9" swing, 48" bed. I would like to thread the barrel on my Buckmark Camper 22 pistol. I've never threaded a barrel before so I'm a little apprehensive about starting this project. The gunsmith wants $150 to thread this barrel. I can buy a threaded barrel for the Buckmark but it's $250.00 I need a practice barrel and maybe learn and make my mistakes with that. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

 

[teratos]

I have a Southbend 9" swing, 48" bed. I would like to thread the barrel on my Buckmark Camper 22 pistol. I've never threaded a barrel before so I'm a little apprehensive about starting this project. The gunsmith wants $150 to thread this barrel. I can buy a threaded barrel for the Buckmark but it's $250.00 I need a practice barrel and maybe learn and make my mistakes with that. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

No. You can practice on a metal rod, frankly. No need for a practice barrel.

 

[Bertfish]

Get good at centering. Many a barrel has been wrecked by threading that was not concentric with the bore

And I bet Class III Machining in Texas could thread it for less and within like a week...

 

[Sticky]

Get good at centering. Many a barrel has been wrecked by threading that was not concentric with the bore

And I bet Class III Machining in Texas could thread it for less and within like a week...

Especially if you are threading it for a suppressor! Pay a pro to get it done right.. the downside is not worth the savings, trust me!

 

[smdub]

IMO, do it. Practice on a rod many times until you and more comfortable. You can even practice on an aluminum rod a couple times before moving up to steel rods. Everyone has a 'first time'. It's always still a little nerve wracking doing it on the real deal. Worst case a new replacement barrel is $85 for the cost of education. What is learning to DIY worth to you?

Browning Buck Mark Barrel - Camper 22LR

Check out the deal on Browning Buck Mark Barrel - Camper 22LR at MGW

www.midwestgunworks.com

To do threads properly you really need a way to measure pitch diameter. 'Thread wires' are a cheap way to do it.

If you don't have a really slow spindle speed that you are comfortable threading to a shoulder, there are tricks like putting the threading tool upside down behind the work and running in reverse. That might not be a good idea on a SB9 lathe due to the threaded chuck/spindle nose (which can start to unscrew itself.) Another cheat I've used sometimes is to spin the spindle by hand. That takes a good sharp tool but you can go right up to a shoulder.