Just picked up a .54 caliber TC Hawken...

[John from MD]

When you ever get to pulling a ball for any reason.
Just look at it and determine if you can see the thread from the patch material engraved in the lead.
Once you get it started, the patched ball should be able to be seated without excessive force.
That barrel has 8 or maybe 10 grooves in it.

The only thing about TC barrels ( with the exception of very early Renegades), is that the rifling is only .005. They were cut that way, and given a 1 in 48 twist, as a compromise to shoot both the round ball and the TC Maxi Ball. They are more accurate with the Maxi Ball than the round ball but the round ball is good enough for white tail hunting as long as you don't try to push it too fast or it will strip the rifling.

 

[willtill]

The only thing about TC barrels ( with the exception of very early Renegades), is that the rifling is only .005. They were cut that way, and given a 1 in 48 twist, as a compromise to shoot both the round ball and the TC Maxi Ball. They are more accurate with the Maxi Ball than the round ball but the round ball is good enough for white tail hunting as long as you don't try to push it too fast or it will strip the rifling.

Ya, I did find and download the manual for the TC Arms Hawken rifle and was looking at the recommended loads. The powder loads for ball were recommended to be less than the powder loads for conical bullets. I found that interesting.

 

[Uncle Duke]

The only thing about TC barrels ( with the exception of very early Renegades), is that the rifling is only .005. They were cut that way, and given a 1 in 48 twist, as a compromise to shoot both the round ball and the TC Maxi Ball. They are more accurate with the Maxi Ball than the round ball but the round ball is good enough for white tail hunting as long as you don't try to push it too fast or it will strip the rifling.

Back when I spent some time shooting my 50 caliber Hawken, it preferred Maxi Ball, Maxi Hunter, and patched ball in that order. Doesn't mean Op will have the same experience, but it may be worth a try, and would probably be a fun experiment.

 

[willtill]

When you ever get to pulling a ball for any reason.
Just look at it and determine if you can see the thread from the patch material engraved in the lead.
Once you get it started, the patched ball should be able to be seated without excessive force.
That barrel has 8 or maybe 10 grooves in it.

Yes, once I get it started down the muzzle (transitioning from bullet starter to ramrod) the patched ball is not difficult to seat. I had swabbed once between each shot with 2 patches/Windex with a .50 cal jag. Then dried out with one more patch and reloaded.

 

[John from MD]

Back when I spent some time shooting my 50 caliber Hawken, it preferred Maxi Ball, Maxi Hunter, and patched ball in that order. Doesn't mean Op will have the same experience, but it may be worth a try, and would probably be a fun experiment.

The problem is, you can't find molds for Maxi Balls or Maxi Hunters any more and I think Track of the Wolf may be the only place to buy the actual bullets.

The inline smoke poles put the good traditional manufacturers out of business. Now there is no support for most of them.

 

[Uncle Duke]

The problem is, you can't find molds for Maxi Balls or Maxi Hunters any more and I think Track of the Wolf may be the only place to buy the actual bullets.

The inline smoke poles put the good traditional manufacturers out of business. Now there is no support for most of them.

Damn! I see what you mean!

Midway USA shows Maxi Ball as discontinued. I do see that Track of the Wolf and a couple of others are casting this bullet design, or are buying from someone who is.

Never been a bullet caster myself. Looks like I ought to lay in a few boxes.

 

[Doco Overboard]

The only thing about TC barrels ( with the exception of very early Renegades), is that the rifling is only .005. They were cut that way, and given a 1 in 48 twist, as a compromise to shoot both the round ball and the TC Maxi Ball. They are more accurate with the Maxi Ball than the round ball but the round ball is good enough for white tail hunting as long as you don't try to push it too fast or it will strip the rifling.

T/c barrels are button rifled not cut.
They also have exceptional accuracy with round balls.
I think the the key is not destroying a patch or cutting it when loading with an oversized ball.
Secondly, not overcharging a round ball load with the expectation velocity always increases accuracy is rarely the case with any muzzleloading rifle.
Consistency in seating pressure for the ball/ conical or even a saboted bullet equates to better accuracy potential in nearly all rifles.
I use round balls for plinking in 1/28 twist T/c rifles with good accuracy.
I agree maxi balls- conicals etc are better for hunting.
Sabots are an excellent choice for rifles with poor or irregular bores because they have the ability to resist deformation due to physical characteristics that may exist due to negligent cleaning storage etc.

 

[willtill]

T/c barrels are button rifled not cut.
They also have exceptional accuracy with round balls.
I think the the key is not destroying a patch or cutting it when loading with an oversized ball.
Secondly, not overcharging a round ball load with the expectation velocity always increases accuracy is rarely the case with any muzzleloading rifle.
Consistency in seating pressure for the ball/ conical or even a saboted bullet equates to better accuracy potential in nearly all rifles.
I use round balls for plinking in 1/28 twist T/c rifles with good accuracy.
I agree maxi balls- conicals etc are better for hunting.
Sabots are an excellent choice for rifles with poor or irregular bores because they have the ability to resist deformation due to physical characteristics that may exist due to negligent cleaning storage etc.

But sabots (plastic residue) can collect and build up in the pits of a poorly maintained barrel? Affecting accuracy?

 

[John from MD]

T/c barrels are button rifled not cut.
They also have exceptional accuracy with round balls.
I think the the key is not destroying a patch or cutting it when loading with an oversized ball.
Secondly, not overcharging a round ball load with the expectation velocity always increases accuracy is rarely the case with any muzzleloading rifle.
Consistency in seating pressure for the ball/ conical or even a saboted bullet equates to better accuracy potential in nearly all rifles.
I use round balls for plinking in 1/28 twist T/c rifles with good accuracy.
I agree maxi balls- conicals etc are better for hunting.
Sabots are an excellent choice for rifles with poor or irregular bores because they have the ability to resist deformation due to physical characteristics that may exist due to negligent cleaning storage etc.

I tried various types in a 1/48 twist and could not get satisfactory performance in them.

 

[Clovis]

I have a Pedersoli flintlock I hunt with and found accuracy with the maxiballs were OK but I thought I could do better and started using patched balls and found accuracy wasn't much better. I was a .45 and I had some wonder wads from the cap and ball shooting and tried one under the patched ball and was much better, said what the heck tried using two and was very improved. I think it helps seal the bore and tightens ball and patch. So now I use the wonder wads in all my round ball loads and it seems to help. Just suggesting you might try some and see if it helps.

 

[Doco Overboard]

But sabots (plastic residue) can collect and build up in the pits of a poorly maintained barrel? Affecting accuracy?

Thats why I clean with hot boiling water.
The only muzzle-loading rifle I have that uses sabots and presents difficulty seating a bullet is my ML II.
And some of that is becuase of how smokeless powder cakes after it burns creating additional friction.
All sabots are not created equal either. I lke MMP high pressure sabots becuase they-re more like nylon than plastic.
They make a red one that allows 45 cal bullets to be used in a 54 cal rifle.
I use them in my T/c Scout with 1/28 twist if I'm not using Prb's for plinking.
A good sabot will not melt if its sealing the powder gas effectively.
I also dont go anywhere near a 150 grain charge of pellet powder or whatever trying to get "Magnum" performance out of a ML.
I do not clean my Savage with boiling water either, just nitro solvent.
I only really use that for hunting anymore because, I specifically dont have to clean after shooting. The only reason really.

 

[Doco Overboard]

I tried various types in a 1/48 twist and could not get satisfactory performance in them.

Try as near a bore size bullet sabot combination as you can get. More bullet and less sabot.
The reason is if your hard alloyed jacketed pistol bullets they may not always set up consistently shifting the center of gravity in the bullet. Soft lead may or may not work better.
As you already know, each rifle is a little different when you develop a load chain for it.
One day, Im going to cut the barrel off a metallic cartridge rifle at the mouth of the cartride so the bullet is exposed then fire the rifle. Then recover the bullet. That would be illegal though just so everyone understands.
I bet a 30 cal jacketed bullet for instance would wind up being as big as dime.
Because of bullet set up. All rifles are the same in this regard and the practice has already been proven I just never did it to prove it to myself.
This is also why you dont need to cram an oversize ball down the bore of a BP rifle.
A prb will set up just fine with the right anount of thrust behind it as long as your dont beging to wire draw the bullet, round ball or whatever missile your shooting out of one thats made of lead copper jacketed, bronze, copper etc.

 

[willtill]

Disassembled the side plate and trigger group this morning. Was very curious as to the condition behind everything. No real corrosion that I can see. Very little fouling. I'm going to scrub the interior of the side plate with dawn and hot water, blast with WD40 and then blow it out, and lubricate with G96. Same for the trigger group. Not wanting to take this apart frequently, so I hope the G96 will keep any future corrosion away.

 

[willtill]

Well, I’ve done this twice now since I’ve been shooting this Hawken. I started to load a patched round ball again today. And realized that I didn’t load powder beforehand.

The first time I did it, I had driven the ball almost all of the way down the barrel. Though I was able to gingerly screw the bullet (ball) puller in and coaxing it to thread into the leaded ball; I got enough of a bite for it to retrieve the ball out of the barrel.

Today though, I had started the patched ball in to the muzzle about an inch before I realized my mistake. What a bear it was to pull out. I think it was due to the pitting of that area of the muzzle that was gripping it even more so.

Destroyed a perfectly good round lead round ball again, due to my preoccupation with what’s going on, adjacent to my left and right.

 

[Blacksmith101]

You need to pay attention because you could forget you already put one load of powder in the barrel and add another. That can mess up your accuracy.

 

[willtill]

You need to pay attention because you could forget you already put one load of powder in the barrel and add another. That can mess up your accuracy.

Yep. Not sure why I did this twice with my Hawken now. I never get out of sequence while loading my two black powder revolvers. But at least my 6th sense immediately popped up and said "hey dummy! you missed a critical step!"

Next time I go out with it, I'll refine my technique. It shouldn't happen again.

 

[willtill]

I also tried the .528 Missouri Bullet Company Brinell .5 "Hardness-Optimized" lead balls with a .015 lubed patch. These lead balls are much harder to get started. but they rode the "boom" out to the target with no issues.

I need to get my chronograph out to the range next time. I want to see how fast these lead balls are travelling.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Yep. Not sure why I did this twice with my Hawken now. I never get out of sequence while loading my two black powder revolvers. But at least my 6th sense immediately popped up and said "hey dummy! you missed a critical step!"

Next time I go out with it, I'll refine my technique. It shouldn't happen again.

Sometimes you can feed a little powder in behind the nipple and shoot them out.
Or even fire a couple of caps to move them along.
When loading, avoid talking to other people or have them talking to you.
The ramrod is the important one to remember even though it sounds elementary people forget or become distracted and fail to remove them.

 

[willtill]

Can't get enough of this rifle and it's wonderful aromatic's. Heading out to the AGC in 30 mikes with it.

I'm taking my chronograph too. Ya'll wish me the best in NOT putting a roundball through it...

 

[willtill]

So my chronograph did not die a shattering death. And she tells me that my TC Hawkins with 70gr 777 is pushing.54 cal lead ball @ 1530-1536 feet per second.