Is Accuracy Based on the Barrel?

[DanGuy48]

Interesting topic. When I was shooting smallbore, our coach had always emphasized care when cleaning so as not to damage the barrel crown. It makes sense, since the crown is the last thing to touch the bullet before it’s in free flight. Interestingly, this article seems to indicate it doesn’t matter much.

Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I find out with the help of my grinder…

Do rifle crowns matter? Does a crown affect accuracy? I think most of use would say yes. It seems intuitive that the crown, the last part of the rifle that touches the bullet before it leaves the…

rifleshooter.com

On the other hand, I had a Ruger 1V in 6 mm Remington that had a tendency to string shots as the barrel heated up. This is apparently a recognized issue and there are several different fixes recommended to remedy the situation. So, in this case the barrel does matter but it’s because of the way it’s mounted and bedded.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Thanks for the explanation B.

No problem that’s just from memory first thing in the morning.
There are certain characteristics understandably with barrel making that do have particular influence.
Chiefly, straightness and how the cone is cut because of manufacturing methods for how reamers are constructed. So a lot of things need to come together just so in a complex system arrangement, not to mention other additional factors.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Tests were done in the 20’s for how wear at the muzzle influenced overall performance.
They were conducted at Springfield armory.
And the Woolrich bunch over to England if I’m not mistaken.

 

[outrider58]

No problem that’s just from memory first thing in the morning.
There are certain characteristics understandably with barrel making that do have particular influence.
Chiefly, straightness and how the cone is cut because of manufacturing methods for how reamers are constructed. So a lot of things need to come together just so in a complex system arrangement, not to mention other additional factors.

The problems regarding poor feed ramps on ARs can be as bad as misaligned bullets as well as bullet setback.

 

[357Max]

Quick question. Do you know if this "Wilson Arms" the "Wilson" that provides barrels to Rock River?

Not sure if they supply rock river? I’ve yet to here of a Wilson Arms barrel that doesn’t shoot very well.

 

[KRC]

357Max

I don't want to hijack this thread, but thanks for the heads up. A 16" SS Bull AR-15 Wilson Arms barrel chambered in .223 Wylde with a gas block for $99???? With $4 shipping??? If this is even close to the two barrels on my RRA's (16" SS varmint/bull and 18" SS varmint/bull which are excellent shooters with tuned handloads) then this is an awesome deal.

Wilson Arms 16" .223 Wylde 1x8 Stainless Steel Bull Barrel Stripped

Please view details for more information.

www.jsesurplus.com

 

[Bountied]

I like barrel tuners. It is much easier to tune the barrel to the load than vice versa. You can tune the barrel to a factory load much more easily than hand making rounds and tuning them to your barrel.

Radial Ported Tuner Brakes

Note: Tuner weight adjusts over top of barrel. On 1" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under 1 inch to fit. On 7/8" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under .875 inch to fit. on 3/4" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under .750 inch to fit. Please specify the caliber in "ORDER SPECIAL...

www.harrellsprecision.com

I have one of these on my 6.5 MB and it makes a difference. It's a bolt gun but you can see your groups open and close to the harmonics of the system. I made a target with 12 1" dots. Shoot 2 rounds at a dot, go a click up, shoot, etc. When the two shots are touching that is you setting. For $100 it might be cheaper than a new barrel or making a bunch of hand loads to try to tune the cartridge. YMMV

 

[gungate]

No don't buy the Wilson Combat.

Buy this one, you'll thank me! Best bang for the buck IMO.

Wilson Arms barrel.

20'' Wilson Arms 6.5 Grendel HBar 1x8 Stainless Steel Stripped Barrel w./ .136 Matched Bolt - JSE Surplus

20″ Wilson Arms 6.5 Hbar Stainless Steel Profile – Hbar Chamber – 6.5 Grendel (Compound Throat (SAAMI Spec) .136 Bolt Face Barrel Thread – 5/8×24 Barrel Twist – 1×8, Air Gauged Lands and Grooves – Barrel Steel – 416R Stainless Steel Barrel Finish –Stainless Steel Barrel Lining – Fluted – No Gas...

www.jsesurplus.com

Thanks I will check it out. I would prefer a non HBAR this rifle is already very heavy. Are HBARs more accurate? Seems they might be.

 

[gungate]

Bullet tails are for maintaining velocity and longevity- stability of flight. Boat tails were developed for maximizing range in machine guns and service rifles. And for being shot from aircraft. They do a poorer job of sealing the bore initially and depend on floating on the gas during the transition of being stationary when the period of young or emergent gas exists and during the period of set up. The rear of a compound bullet is also moving before the point does becuase its generally made of lead with a steel, gilding metal, tungsten or copper exterior envelope.
pointing bullets or conditioning tips is for reducing the transition through the destabilization period When yaw and extrnalr forces such as resistance to air density begins as a bullet already in flight begins to shed velocity rapidly which also happens to occur at a higher rate than a bullet loses its ability to spin around its axis. A bullets trajectory curve or rate of fall is always at the end of its means of velocity not at the beginning which happens to be nearly in the same period as destabilization begins its effects. Just like a gyroscope or spinning top wobbles initially once it's spun or put into motion, it will spin on its own axis and stand up straight or go to sleep, then as it slows it will wobble violently before it topples over.
This why I think that humogenoues bullets are better or a copper solid to a specific hardness, becuase theirs no envelope and less risk becuase they're are made all of the same material, no cups no cores etc.
But they're expensive and the primary reason I do not use them becuase I'm too cheap and have no need to shoot that far for game taking or target shooting in general. Theirs lots of things out there that people do, knowing why your doing it is another matter.

I reload and I use the below. I am currently tuning my reloading but haven't gotten it really dialed in yet.

Natchez

www.natchezss.com

 

[Doco Overboard]

The problems regarding poor feed ramps on ARs can be as bad as misaligned bullets as well as bullet setback.

Yes, but if you chamber a cartridge and just fired it in a barrel, and theirs accuracy problems , they are due to feed ramps and the system in general, not the barrel.
A good or better system would allow loading to reduce damage to components not degrade accuracy.
It’s the difference in a well designed arm and one with deficiencies in the system and a run of the mill one to meet a different type of demand which doesn’t address accuracy completely.
A good example would be an AR. When you hand load and close the bolt the locking system equalizes itself and exhibits a high degree of accuracy potential. Bolt thrust is distributed through multiple lugs and recoil is directed straight back and radially distributed.
But a better system would be not damaging ammo to conserve weight ease of manufacturing costs etc.
Other systems address that particular aspect however may not meet other manufacturing designs simply like cost and avoiding complicated machine work.
In an AR , the design is also as such that the cartridge doesn't have the problem as having to over come the distance that’s created where twin opposing lugs are used as the means to place a cartridge in battery.
One would notice M1, 14, probably a ruger mini and a few other hosts I can’t think of right now now have the same fundamental aspect designed into them just not with radial locking surfaces.

 

[outrider58]

Quick question. Do you know if this "Wilson Arms" the "Wilson" that provides barrels to Rock River?

Yes

About Us | Wilson Arms

 

[Doco Overboard]

I reload and I use the below. I am currently tuning my reloading but haven't gotten it really dialed in yet.

Natchez

www.natchezss.com

I load with boat tails too at times as well.
My problem is/ having barrels on a bunch of different guns to where the diameter of the cone is at or larger than the diameter of the grooves of the rifling because of how a reamer is made.
And being a crippled older cheap ass fat Fudd who can’t go from standing to prone like I could when I was a younger man.
And knows Ar’s are junk but still owns / enjoys them just the same because they’re cheaper than I am.

 

[Melnic]

Accuracy is in many ways constancy.
Barrel Quality makes a HUGE difference with something you can't control like 22LR (you only control it by what brand of 22 you buy)
That being said, Its all about consistency and quality of each component.
Things like the shooter, how your shooting, the trigger, bedding etc all become contributing factors the more precise you get.
What I've found in my limited experience of reloading for accuracy is in order of effect on accuracy given the same shooter and glass:
Bullet
Barrel (includes chamber, rifling, crown etc, bedding)
Powder charge
seating depth
Case

When you get sub MOA I feel that you need to worry/think about more things or you will be limited even with a high quality barrel/bullet. Ignore the other things and you won't hit 1/2 MOA

Hunting gun, is the thin barrel cooling down between shots?

There are other factors but I've had crummy frosted Mosin Barrels shoot crap or great just by changing bullets to match the barrel or the same diameter but a brand of bullets that are more consistent in weight/shape.

There is also glass. Not going to get good consistent sub moa with crap glass that moves around each shot.
Some shooters just can't manage to hold the gun well enough or don't know how to consistently place the gun to shoot tight groups. that is a skill upon itself that will limit anyone where the gun can shoot better than the shooter.

My Sierra Match King 223 reloads got better accuracy w/o even tuning them when I got a Criterion barrel for the AR.
My Ruger 10/22 got SOOO much more accuracy/consistancy when I got a heavy target barrel.


I'm sure John or Ed will be along to correct my above statements where I'm wrong.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Accuracy is in many ways constancy.
Barrel Quality makes a HUGE difference with something you can't control like 22LR (you only control it by what brand of 22 you buy)
That being said, Its all about consistency and quality of each component.
Things like the shooter, how your shooting, the trigger, bedding etc all become contributing factors the more precise you get.
What I've found in my limited experience of reloading for accuracy is in order of effect on accuracy given the same shooter and glass:
Bullet
Barrel (includes chamber, rifling, crown etc, bedding)
Powder charge
seating depth
Case

When you get sub MOA I feel that you need to worry/think about more things or you will be limited even with a high quality barrel/bullet. Ignore the other things and you won't hit 1/2 MOA

Hunting gun, is the thin barrel cooling down between shots?

There are other factors but I've had crummy frosted Mosin Barrels shoot crap or great just by changing bullets to match the barrel or the same diameter but a brand of bullets that are more consistent in weight/shape.

There is also glass. Not going to get good consistent sub moa with crap glass that moves around each shot.
Some shooters just can't manage to hold the gun well enough or don't know how to consistently place the gun to shoot tight groups. that is a skill upon itself that will limit anyone where the gun can shoot better than the shooter.

My Sierra Match King 223 reloads got better accuracy w/o even tuning them when I got a Criterion barrel for the AR.
My Ruger 10/22 got SOOO much more accuracy/consistancy when I got a heavy target barrel.


I'm sure John or Ed will be along to correct my above statements where I'm wrong.

The question was, is accuracy based on the barrel.
The answer is bullet symmetry.
It’s written in every text devoted wholly to the subject.
Not you tube, not field and stream but by book trained slide rule engineers dedicated to the development of small arm equipment and manufacturing and technical ballistic development professionals who not only manufactured the equipment to do such but explored and determined metallurgical properties for component construction etc.
I may add government arsenals led by leading nations who had enough money to not only write the book, but make it happen.

 

[KRC]

Accuracy is in many ways constancy.
Barrel Quality makes a HUGE difference with something you can't control like 22LR (you only control it by what brand of 22 you buy)
That being said, Its all about consistency and quality of each component.
Things like the shooter, how your shooting, the trigger, bedding etc all become contributing factors the more precise you get.
What I've found in my limited experience of reloading for accuracy is in order of effect on accuracy given the same shooter and glass:
Bullet
Barrel (includes chamber, rifling, crown etc, bedding)
Powder charge
seating depth
Case

For precision and achieving optimal tune, I'd say:
1.a Barrel
1.b Barrel
1.c Barrel
2. Seating Depth, Powder Type and Charge, Bullet type, Case Prep and NECK TENSION.
This assumes no issue with the rest of the "system", and a shooter capable of, and willing, to do the work.

PS - For CF I tune loads to the barrel. No CF tuners. On some of my competition rimfires I have tuners to deal with the vagaries of brands, types and lots of RF ammo. I would think that even with a tuner on a CF rifle you would want to start with ammo with the best tune anyways. In precision RF (like ARA Benchrest) there is pretty much no point in attempting to tune a lot of ammo that isn't good to start with. This is why I never buy large quantities of high end RF ammo until I've tested that specific lot.

 

[357Max]

Thanks I will check it out. I would prefer a non HBAR this rifle is already very heavy. Are HBARs more accurate? Seems they might be.

Not necessarily more accurate. They (HBAR) take longer to heat up & as a result tend to not string shots with a fast or higher count coarse of fire. Heavier guns are also just plain easier to drive & easier to self spot hits/misses through the scope.

If I didn't have 6 new quality AR barrels sitting here I'd be all over that Wilson sale @JSE. To many irons in the fire.

Just get the fluted HBAR if you want to shave a little weight. They only have 2 in stock at the moment. They haven't been in stock for a long time.
FYI - This includes a matched bolt.

20'' Wilson Arms 6.5 Grendel HBar 1x8 Stainless Steel/Fluted Stripped Barrel w/ .136 Matched Bolt - JSE Surplus

20″ Wilson Arms 6.5 Hbar Stainless Steel NOTE: This barrel DOES NOT include sight tower, barrel nut or hand guard cap. NOTE:DOES NOT include a gas block.

www.jsesurplus.com

 

[Defense Initiative]

If I take my mediocre BCA 20" 6.5 Grendel upper and re-barrel it with a Wilson Combat "match" grade 22" barrel, will the gun, all things being equal, be more accurate? And by more accurate I mean tighter groups. I would use as many parts from the BCA upper as I can and buy only what doesn't work for whatever reason.

I know very little about Wilson barrels; however, if it is designated as a match barrel, it should be more accurate than a factory barrel. An exception that comes to mind is the Benelli Lupo; they use factory barrels that are getting 1/2 MOA.

 

[Magnumite]

Doc Ovrbowrd…great posts…Thank you!