Is Accuracy Based on the Barrel?

[gungate]

If I take my mediocre BCA 20" 6.5 Grendel upper and re-barrel it with a Wilson Combat "match" grade 22" barrel, will the gun, all things being equal, be more accurate? And by more accurate I mean tighter groups. I would use as many parts from the BCA upper as I can and buy only what doesn't work for whatever reason.

 

[4g64loser]

If I take my mediocre BCA 20" 6.5 Grendel upper and re-barrel it with a Wilson Combat "match" grade 22" barrel, will the gun, all things being equal, be more accurate? And by more accurate I mean tighter groups. I would use as many parts from the BCA upper as I can and buy only what doesn't work for whatever reason.

I've heard of more than a few issues with Wilson barrels.

If you are gonna invest, get a matched bolt head and barrel from shilen, criterion, or similar. If you really want to spend money (I'm guessing that you don't from the above about reusing parts) buy a krieger or a brux. I own two of each currently (in bolt guns) and have had several other kriegers (including two in match grade ARs). No disappointments.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

It’s usually more than just the barrel. It’s the chamber dimensions…the barrel crown…the bedding to the stock…the receiver stiffness…lots of variables.

Everything else being equal…a better and more dimensionally consistent barrel will help.

 

[4g64loser]

It’s usually more than just the barrel. It’s the chamber dimensions…the barrel crown…the bedding to the stock…the receiver stiffness…lots of variables.

Everything else being equal…a better and more dimensionally consistent barrel will help.

OP has an AR pattern rifle. No stock bedding but there are definitely some barrel extension/upper receiver fit issues to be had. That weapon system introduces a lot of variables that a bolt gun doesn't have to contend with. I'll let clandestine comment on the fine details. I have built very accurate ars but he does the work every day and has far broader knowledge.

To OP: I'd bet that scoping the bore, inspecting the crown with a loupe, and measuring the chamber will reveal some of the issues.

 

[Biggfoot44]

How mediocre is mediocre ? How accurate is expectations of more accurate ?

 

[outrider58]

OP has an AR pattern rifle. No stock bedding but there are definitely some barrel extension/upper receiver fit issues to be had. That weapon system introduces a lot of variables that a bolt gun doesn't have to contend with. I'll let clandestine comment on the fine details. I have built very accurate ars but he does the work every day and has far broader knowledge.

To OP: I'd bet that scoping the bore, inspecting the crown with a loupe, and measuring the chamber will reveal some of the issues.

A barrel is a barrel. That said, barrel fitment can play an important role in AR accuracy. If you do everything right when mounting an AR barrel to the receiver, then accuracy of that barrel will rely at least 90% upon quality of that particular barrel, as you have done your best to alleviate most of the other variables.

 

[Doco Overboard]

It's symmetry of the bullet practically.
Especially when modern production methods are employed and consistently followed/adhered too.

 

[davsco]

all things being equal, yes, a higher quality barrel should be more accurate. if they're not installed correctly (too loose, gas block hitting handguard, etc) then neither will be accurate. because you mentioned 20 v 22", generally barrel length doesn't affect pure accuracy although some will say a shorter barrel is stiffer with less flex. a longer barrel will give you higher velocities which will reduce the effect of wind some at distance resulting in tighter groups.

 

[outrider58]

It's symmetry of the bullet practically.
Especially when modern production methods are employed and consistently followed/adhered too.

An f'd up feed ramp can ruin the best bullet's symmetry.

 

[Doco Overboard]

An f'd up feed ramp can ruin the best bullet's symmetry.

Maybe so if the mechanism is particularly that hard on one, but its the rear of the bullet or bearing surface where accuracy comes from in many of the best designs.
Bullets are made with plastic tips, aluminum, exposed lead etc. Some of them are even filled with other substances like paper inserted into the tip to keep them within a particular weight confine but to give enough resistance to when they are pressed into an envelope.
Of all the manufacturing errors the accuracy of shooting the want or lack there of, symmetry is by far the most serious.
If the center of of mass of the bullet is not truly on the axis, the only thing that keeps it straight is the barrel until it quits the muzzle.
If the center of mass of a bullet is off only one thousandth of an inch it could cause an error of around 13 or 14 inches at 600 yards.
Its because the bullet departs on an axis centered around its on mass while trapped in the barrel but departs on a line of prolongation according to its error once it leaves the confines of it. Once a bullet is set up and the envelope is stressed deformed, poorly manufactured etc the best barrel in the world wont shoot it to any repetitive truth.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Splitting the heads of angels dancing on a pin -

Base consistency and design is the major * manufacturing * factor .

Mangled bullet tips are the major * damage * factor .

 

[Rocinante]

Also depends on your ammunition and the barrel's twist rate.

 

[clandestine]

I have several Wilson Combat barrels I use to show students how bad barrels can be.

Outrider is correct about feed ramps causing consistency issues.

 

[King Chicken]

Each inch of barrel accounts for a percentage increase of accuracy up to AND INCLUDING 100 inches. No reason to get a 101" barrel for example because it's impossible to be 101% accurate.

 

[KRC]

Firstly, are you achieving this "mediocre" level of precision using commercial ammo? If so, before you replace the barrel, consider developing handloaded precision ammo TUNED to your barrel. A major improvement in precision may be available.

Secondly, if your current barrel is the limiting factor for precision, changing it for another provides the opportunity to make an improvement, but it is not a sure thing, as you now will be playing the barrel "lottery". The better the reputation of the barrelmaker (Krieger, Brux, Rock Creek, Bartlien, Shilen etc.) the better your chances of getting a true "match grade" barrel capable of excellent precision.

But then you are back to "Firstly" above . . .

Handloads must be precision loaded, meaning each round is as similar to each other as possible with respect to all parameters, and tuned means the various parameters of a loaded round combined result in optimized precision from your rifle barrel/system. While there are general rules of thumb for loading many cartridges, true optimization is only achieved through testing.

PS - Anyone can slap "Match" on a product description, and this appears to be an increasingly common practice in the firearms market. I have recently seen barrels with multiple manufacturing flaws labelled as "match" - barrels that would likely never leave the shop of one of the above named barrelmakers.

 

[357Max]

No don't buy the Wilson Combat.

Buy this one, you'll thank me! Best bang for the buck IMO.

Wilson Arms barrel.

20'' Wilson Arms 6.5 Grendel HBar 1x8 Stainless Steel Stripped Barrel w./ .136 Matched Bolt - JSE Surplus

20″ Wilson Arms 6.5 Hbar Stainless Steel Profile – Hbar Chamber – 6.5 Grendel (Compound Throat (SAAMI Spec) .136 Bolt Face Barrel Thread – 5/8×24 Barrel Twist – 1×8, Air Gauged Lands and Grooves – Barrel Steel – 416R Stainless Steel Barrel Finish –Stainless Steel Barrel Lining – Fluted – No Gas...

www.jsesurplus.com

 

[outrider58]

Maybe so if the mechanism is particularly that hard on one, but its the rear of the bullet or bearing surface where accuracy comes from in many of the best designs.
Bullets are made with plastic tips, aluminum, exposed lead etc. Some of them are even filled with other substances like paper inserted into the tip to keep them within a particular weight confine but to give enough resistance to when they are pressed into an envelope.
Of all the manufacturing errors the accuracy of shooting the want or lack there of, symmetry is by far the most serious.
If the center of of mass of the bullet is not truly on the axis, the only thing that keeps it straight is the barrel until it quits the muzzle.
If the center of mass of a bullet is off only one thousandth of an inch it could cause an error of around 13 or 14 inches at 600 yards.
Its because the bullet departs on an axis centered around its on mass while trapped in the barrel but departs on a line of prolongation according to its error once it leaves the confines of it. Once a bullet is set up and the envelope is stressed deformed, poorly manufactured etc the best barrel in the world wont shoot it to any repetitive truth.

My understanding has been, bullet tails are responsible for longer range accuracy. Bullet 'pointing' is a thing.

 

[Doco Overboard]

My understanding has been, bullet tails are responsible for longer range accuracy. Bullet 'pointing' is a thing.

Bullet tails are for maintaining velocity and longevity- stability of flight. Boat tails were developed for maximizing range in machine guns and service rifles. And for being shot from aircraft. They do a poorer job of sealing the bore initially and depend on floating on the gas during the transition of being stationary when the period of young or emergent gas exists and during the period of set up. The rear of a compound bullet is also moving before the point does becuase its generally made of lead with a steel, gilding metal, tungsten or copper exterior envelope.
pointing bullets or conditioning tips is for reducing the transition through the destabilization period When yaw and extrnalr forces such as resistance to air density begins as a bullet already in flight begins to shed velocity rapidly which also happens to occur at a higher rate than a bullet loses its ability to spin around its axis. A bullets trajectory curve or rate of fall is always at the end of its means of velocity not at the beginning which happens to be nearly in the same period as destabilization begins its effects. Just like a gyroscope or spinning top wobbles initially once it's spun or put into motion, it will spin on its own axis and stand up straight or go to sleep, then as it slows it will wobble violently before it topples over.
This why I think that humogenoues bullets are better or a copper solid to a specific hardness, becuase theirs no envelope and less risk becuase they're are made all of the same material, no cups no cores etc.
But they're expensive and the primary reason I do not use them becuase I'm too cheap and have no need to shoot that far for game taking or target shooting in general. Theirs lots of things out there that people do, knowing why your doing it is another matter.

 

[KRC]

Wilson Arms barrel.

20'' Wilson Arms 6.5 Grendel HBar 1x8 Stainless Steel Stripped Barrel w./ .136 Matched Bolt - JSE Surplus

20″ Wilson Arms 6.5 Hbar Stainless Steel Profile – Hbar Chamber – 6.5 Grendel (Compound Throat (SAAMI Spec) .136 Bolt Face Barrel Thread – 5/8×24 Barrel Twist – 1×8, Air Gauged Lands and Grooves – Barrel Steel – 416R Stainless Steel Barrel Finish –Stainless Steel Barrel Lining – Fluted – No Gas...

www.jsesurplus.com

Quick question. Do you know if this "Wilson Arms" the "Wilson" that provides barrels to Rock River?

 

[outrider58]

Bullet tails are for maintaining velocity and longevity- stability of flight. Boat tails were developed for maximizing range in machine guns and service rifles. And for being shot from aircraft. They do a poorer job of sealing the bore initially and depend on floating on the gas during the transition of being stationary when the period of young or emergent gas exists and during the period of set up. The rear of a compound bullet is also moving before the point does becuase its generally made of lead with a steel, gilding metal, tungsten or copper exterior envelope.
pointing bullets or conditioning tips is for reducing the transition through the destabilization period When yaw and extrnalr forces such as resistance to air density begins as a bullet already in flight begins to shed velocity rapidly which also happens to occur at a higher rate than a bullet loses its ability to spin around its axis. A bullets trajectory curve or rate of fall is always at the end of its means of velocity not at the beginning which happens to be nearly in the same period as destabilization begins its effects. Just like a gyroscope or spinning top wobbles initially once it's spun or put into motion, it will spin on its own axis and stand up straight or go to sleep, then as it slows it will wobble violently before it topples over.
This why I think that humogenoues bullets are better or a copper solid to a specific hardness, becuase theirs no envelope and less risk becuase they're are made all of the same material, no cups no cores etc.
But they're expensive and the primary reason I do not use them becuase I'm too cheap and have no need to shoot that far for game taking or target shooting in general. Theirs lots of things out there that people do, knowing why your doing it is another matter.

Thanks for the explanation B.