Internet-only Gun Stores vs. Local Gun Shops

[iH8DemLibz]

What to stock:

If it's black, put it in the rack.

If it's blued, you're probably screwed.

If it's plastic, all the more fantastic.

If it's wood, not sure that you should.

If it's stainless, the sale will be painless.

If it's tacti-cool, the customers will drool.

If it's chrome, it'll have a new home.

 

[TylerFirearms]

What to stock:

If it's black, put it in the rack.

If it's blued, you're probably screwed.

If it's plastic, all the more fantastic.

If it's wood, not sure that you should.

If it's stainless, the sale will be painless.

If it's tacti-cool, the customers will drool.

If it's chrome, it'll have a new home.

That's awesome!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

That's awesome!

15 percent of gross sounds about right.

 

[peace]

Yup, wait till ATF inspects those kitchen table FFLs. ATF does NOT permit kitchen table FFLs to have foot traffic (Transfers, Retail Store) unless they are zoned for commercial use. If they find out the FFL will have problems. There's also Tax issues and profits, if there's no profits then they can challenge the FFLs purpose. ATF inspectors are also checking business licenses, occupancy permits, even wether the bank accounts, incorporated name, and FFL names match, and such.

I know of a few refinishers, engravers, and other kitchen table FFLs that got pee-pee slapped by ATF for having foot traffic when they weren't zoned for it.

Love the FEAR MONGERING!!!

EVERYONE BE WARE ATF COMING 2 GET UR GUNS!!!! THEY GONNA TAKE YOUR KITCHEN TABLE FFL....

yeah right. They've been around a long time and the ones that get the books right and stick to the letter of the law have remained untouched.

 

[BlackBart]

Love the FEAR MONGERING!!!

EVERYONE BE WARE ATF COMING 2 GET UR GUNS!!!! THEY GONNA TAKE YOUR KITCHEN TABLE FFL....

yeah right. They've been around a long time and the ones that get the books right and stick to the letter of the law have remained untouched.

Who's fear mongering?

 

[peace]

Who's fear mongering?

Clandestine is making sure you beware about kitchen FFLs. As if they didn't pass an Audit from ATF to get their valid FFL license.

 

[clandestine]

Love the FEAR MONGERING!!!

EVERYONE BE WARE ATF COMING 2 GET UR GUNS!!!! THEY GONNA TAKE YOUR KITCHEN TABLE FFL....

yeah right. They've been around a long time and the ones that get the books right and stick to the letter of the law have remained untouched.

I'm speaking from direct experience. I never said anyone is coming for anyone's guns, I said kitchen table FFLs can't legally do what they are doing if they are doing what people in this thread are claiming. I listed the reasons and they are what current ATF inspectors are doing. Inspectors are also targeting 07 Manufacturers and trying to ding them on DDTC/ITAR violations which are enforced by the U.S. State Department. They want exemption waivers or they notify U.S. State Dept. Dealers get these to fire the shell casing but don't realize that they are subject to being a Manufacturer when they do that. Manufacturers (Even those who DONT export, are subject to these regulations if they are in the weapons manufacturing business and don't even make firearms).

Do you have your name on a FFL? Have you worked for one? Have you ever been party to an ATF Inspection? Pleas tell us where I'm making stuff up and fear mongering? I'm statingnthe facts as ATF currently enforces their regulations. The ATF did the same thing during the Clinton Presidency. They pretty much eliminated ALL kitchen table FFLs.

 

[clandestine]

Clandestine is making sure you beware about kitchen FFLs. As if they didn't pass an Audit from ATF to get their valid FFL license.

That does not mean anything to the consumer as far as their purchases go. It simply means that FFL won't be there once ATF finds about how they are operating. A simple log book inspection will reveal what I'm talking about.

 

[WheelHead]

That does not mean anything to the consumer as far as their purchases go. It simply means that FFL won't be there once ATF finds about how they are operating. A simple log book inspection will reveal what I'm talking about.

Correct, The ATF requires that you be zoned by the county that you are operating in OR given express permission by public hearing that you are able to have onsite customers. If an ATF even suspects that you are not following the county regulation..by by FFL. I've just been through the ringer on this.....its a terrible process. But it would be a way to weed out none complaint FFLs with a single phone call.......

 

[BlackBart]

Clandestine is making sure you beware about kitchen FFLs. As if they didn't pass an Audit from ATF to get their valid FFL license.

You might want to tell your friend of a friend... friend............. this is in Chadley's wheelhouse and yours is.........?

 

[Dogabutila]

I go to engage for everything, just so you know. However:

"Will an internet-only gun store walk you through maintenance, safety and operation of your new gun at the point of sale? No."

Youtube videos man. There are hundreds of them. If you can click around the internet to buy a gun you can certainly do a youtube search for a guide.

 

[Cai]

Personally I just prefer figuring out exactly what I want, then I'll go to the local shop to see if they have it. If they do sweet if not I see if they can order it for me for a reasonable price. The 2 times I have done that, once for my 590a1 and once for mags have been very satisfactory for me. Seems like a best of both worlds kind of thing.

 

[tsmith1499]

Never been to Tyler firearms but plan to in the future. I also applaud you for this thread.

One example of seeing the writing on the wall is Engage. When all this FSA2013 crap started, they started looking into sort of changing what they specialized in. I may not have the time frame correct but this is when I noticed it. You all have probably noticed the farther we got into FAS2013 the more Engage started to concentrate on HBAR custom builds. They were rolling with the flow and as far as I can tell have sold a crap load of HBAR's as well as other components associated with these builds. I know I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's one example of seeing the future and changing to meet it. Also if you didn't know it. Hafer's in Hagerstown has expanded and moved their shop. So there is hope out there. I have always felt welcome at Engage or Hafer's. Never felt like they didn't have time for me.

 

[TylerFirearms]

Never been to Tyler firearms but plan to in the future. I also applaud you for this thread.

One example of seeing the writing on the wall is Engage. When all this FSA2013 crap started, they started looking into sort of changing what they specialized in. I may not have the time frame correct but this is when I noticed it. You all have probably noticed the farther we got into FAS2013 the more Engage started to concentrate on HBAR custom builds. They were rolling with the flow and as far as I can tell have sold a crap load of HBAR's as well as other components associated with these builds. I know I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's one example of seeing the future and changing to meet it. Also if you didn't know it. Hafer's in Hagerstown has expanded and moved their shop. So there is hope out there. I have always felt welcome at Engage or Hafer's. Never felt like they didn't have time for me.

We are quite diverse with our business model. Local gun sales are only about 25% of our business. Transfers are another 5% or so. Online guns sales comes in about 22%. Even if gun sales were to be banned in Maryland, we would just concentrate more in online sales and training.

 

[peace]

We are quite diverse with our business model. Local gun sales are only about 25% of our business. Transfers are another 5% or so. Online guns sales comes in about 22%. Even if gun sales were to be banned in Maryland, we would just concentrate more in online sales and training.

Perhaps I overstated, but my point is well put by OP above. Online gun sales, or at the very least an online presence is required to thrive in a 2015 firearms retail business.

I've purchased both locally and online. When it comes down to it no dealer in MD has ever been able to come close to online for scopes, rings, mounts, bipods, bullets, primers, powder, brass, laser range finders, spotting scopes, and other long range accessories. If I'm purchasing a gun im doing it full custom to be exactly how I want it, nothing you're gonna find in a gun shop in MD short of an AI, GAP, Surgeon bolt gun, NF Scope from 2A(only place I know of that sells them in MD).

Some buyers need your help, others don't. Offer those who don't a more convient way to shop and give them better prices. Most of your online transactions were require minimal time investment if any.

 

[plinkerton]

Personally I just prefer figuring out exactly what I want, then I'll go to the local shop to see if they have it. If they do sweet if not I see if they can order it for me for a reasonable price. The 2 times I have done that, once for my 590a1 and once for mags have been very satisfactory for me. Seems like a best of both worlds kind of thing.

I have done that multiple times. Since Tyler started the thread I won't mention the IP I have dealt with.

If they didn't have what I wanted in stock I talked directly with the owner, showed him Interwebs pricing, what other LGS's are charging, then offered him what I thought was a price with a fair profit margin, a price a bit higher than online, and a bit lower than what other local shops are asking, and paid in cash at time of offer.

Because the gun is paid for before they order AND I pay in cash they have no carrying cost, and no CC transaction fees to pay, and I presume they are making $$$, they have never rejected any of my offers.

 

[EliteContent]

Go to Engage in Rockville!

Great Prices...

Professional...

Friendly...

What more could you ask for.

All of this hoopla sounds like crying to me.

JMO

 

[good guy 176]

I support Chuck and Tyler Firearms. I have transferred a "wad" of firearms through them this past year, have purchased one pistol thus far, have sold one Garand there that I had on consignment, and I have one HRA Garand currently on consignment with them. Tyler is now my go to store.

I used Al at The Gun Rack in Burtonsville, MD for many years and purchased many a fine firearm from him, but Md SB 281 was too much for him to swallow and he took down the shingle at the end of June 2014.

And, Paul at Constitutional Firearms in Scaggsville folded his tent at the end of May 2014, so I had to look elsewhere for a decent FFL, and found one at Tyler.

IMO, a MD FFL will only survive so long as they have a viable store front operation that is supported by knowledgeable staff, reasonable prices and an internet presence to satisfy those who prefer to shop on the net. Personally, I shop both places, but I do prefer seeing and touching before purchasing and the interaction with staff is always very helpful.

Lew--Ranger63
US Army (Ret--'84)

 

[bigalf]

It's not self-promotion. It's more "industry promotion". I've had quite a few conversations with other local gun store owners and they say the exact same things as my original post. It's more of a "here is why we do what we do". And, for the record, my original post and subsequent replies are not necessarily the opinion of other local gun store owners. They are mine and mine alone...

For example, I have a purple Ruger SR22 in stock. I paid $289.99 plus $12.95 to have it shipped to my store. It has a lifetime warranty from Davidson's. I charge $359. That's $56.06 in gross profit. Minus the $10 MSP fee, that leaves $46.06. Minus the trader's license, the Maryland dealer's license fee, the federal licenses, rent, electric, internet service for NICS checks, phone line to FAX the 77R, worker's compensation insurance, fire/theft insurance, liability insurance, and credit card fees, that leaves about $25 in net profit. When people want a $50 discount, I'm losing money. I guess I need to charge $650 then I can give people discounts...

I read this post and I thought to myself, if you make only $25 profit on the transaction why not encourage people to buy online? If we can get it on Buds for 320, get free shipping and not pay tax, and you charge $40 for a transfer fee, you make more and we still save $20 not paying tax to the state. It seems like margins are low on gun sales because of all the hoops FFL's have to jump through, so I guess my question is, isn't it easy and almost/more profitable to just do transfers and make all profit on the deal? If that is the case and I'm an FFL Id welcome transfers and online purchases in my store. Maybe there is a little more paper work to complete, just thinking outloud. The amount we save not paying tax can almost offset paying a transfer fee. I do agree that some of the prices for a transfer are a little high. Just for the record I did a transfer with you, and it was a very pleasant experience and at a great price.

 

[t84a]

I read this post and I thought to myself, if you make only $25 profit on the transaction why not encourage people to buy online? If we can get it on Buds for 320, get free shipping and not pay tax, and you charge $40 for a transfer fee, you make more and we still save $20 not paying tax to the state. It seems like margins are low on gun sales because of all the hoops FFL's have to jump through, so I guess my question is, isn't it easy and almost/more profitable to just do transfers and make all profit on the deal? If that is the case and I'm an FFL Id welcome transfers and online purchases in my store. Maybe there is a little more paper work to complete, just thinking outloud. The amount we save not paying tax can almost offset paying a transfer fee. I do agree that some of the prices for a transfer are a little high. Just for the record I did a transfer with you, and it was a very pleasant experience and at a great price.

It amazes me that people are so open about committing illegal acts.

Every time you purchase taxable tangible goods from businesses outside of Maryland, whether in person, over the phone, or on the Internet, the purchase is subject to Maryland's 6 percent use tax or 9 percent alcoholic beverage tax if you use the merchandise in Maryland. Maryland's use tax protects Maryland businesses from unfair competition. Local businesses would be at a competitive disadvantage if consumers were entitled to a 6 or 9 percent discount on items purchased from out of state businesses.